The Jews and the Second Coming

Ignatius Insight ^ | Roy H. Schoeman

[NYer]

The author, Roy H. Schoeman, was born in a suburb of New York City of “Conservative" Jewish parents who had fled Nazi Germany.  His Jewish education and formation was received under some of the most prominent Rabbis in contemporary American Jewry, including Rabbi Arthur Hertzberg, probably the foremost Conservative Rabbi in the U.S. and his hometown Rabbi growing up;  Rabbi Arthur Green, later the head of the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College who was his religion teacher and mentor during high school and early college; and Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach, a prominent Hasidic Rabbi with whom he lived in Israel for several months.

His secular education included a B.Sc. from M.I.T. and an M.B.A. magna cum laude from Harvard Business School. Midway through a career of teaching and consulting (he had been appointed to the faculty of the Harvard Business School) he experienced an unexpected and instantaneous conversion to Christianity which led to a dramatic refocus of his activities. Since then he has pursued theological studies at several seminaries, helped produce and host a Catholic Television talk show, and edited and written for several Catholic books and reviews.

• Visit Roy's website, which contains much more information about Salvation is from the Jews, at www.salvationisfromthejews.com.

[NYer]

Excellent book!

[Pyro7480]

Wow, you’re really trying to get people to look at this book, aren’t you? ;-)

[mnehring]

Bump to read later.

[wideawake]

It is an excellent volume.

It's interesting that Shlomo Carlebach, Hasidic rabbi, was the teacher of one of America's most prominent Catholic Jews and also of the world's most prominent Hasidic reggae star.

[NYer]

Wow, you’re really trying to get people to look at this book, aren’t you? ;-)

Actually, I stumbled upon this excerpt the other day and wanted to share it with others in the forum. What do you think of it?

To see christianity through the eyes of a converted Jew is like turning up the dimmer switch. Now we see things we had not noticed before. His conversion story is simply amazing. He must constantly wonder "why me?" (I know I would be). And to have been escorted before the Blessed Mother! It's just astounding and yet, he is a very humble man.

[theFIRMbss]

>the concerted efforts of the past century to eliminate the Jews and, failing that, to destroy the nascent State of Israel, well might be part of a diabolical attempt to prevent the Second Coming

And the flip-side is,
conspiracy types can say
the secular push

for a "Jewish" home
in the Middle East that's not
a theocracy

is a counterfeit,
a diabolical try
to fake God's kingdom

and force the End Times
at our convenience, not God's.
Tin foil cuts both ways.

[NYer]

Here Jesus is saying that he will not be seen again (i.e., the Second Coming will not occur) until "you" (the Jews) say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" (i.e., acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah).

A few months before he died, one of the nation’s most prominent rabbis, Yitzhak Kaduri, supposedly wrote the name of the Messiah on a small note which he requested would remain sealed until now. When the note was unsealed, it revealed what many have known for centuries: Yehoshua, or Yeshua (Jesus), is the Messiah.
Rabbi Reveals Name of the Messiah

Fascinating!

[Brad’s Gramma]

Another book to buy...THANKS!

[Uri’el-2012]

Baruch HaShem Yah'shua

YHvH is my salvation

[FourtySeven]

For reference.

[topcat54]

This one in particular caught my attention:

–Sometime before the Second Coming, two-thirds of the Jews in "the whole land" will be exterminated (Zechariah 13:8-9):

"In the whole land, says the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are my people'; and they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"

In fact, during the Holocaust almost exactly two-thirds of Europe's Jews perished (estimates vary between 60% and 72%). [5]

I would think most conservative Jewish scholars would interpret "the whole land" as referring to the ancient land of Israel.

Seems that if you are going to twist the prophecies to the extent suggested here you can pretty much make the Bible say anything you want it to say.

And this:

Jesus Himself prophesied the conversion of the Jews prior to the Second Coming when He said (Matthew 23:37-39):

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.... Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Here Jesus is saying that he will not be seen again (i.e., the Second Coming will not occur) until "you" (the Jews) say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" (i.e., acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah).

Is that really what Jesus was saying? Is the author limiting the timeframe to some period just prior to the second coming, or can this not describe the entire NT age?

I see a lot of Roman Catholic dogma being mentioned, but just curious, are these authoritative interpretations of the Bible, or one man’s suggestions?

The article reads like a strange mix of modern-day fundamentalist Christian eschatology and moderately conservative Jewish thinking. And it doesn’t seem to do either one very well.

[Alex Murphy]

Bump to check out the eschatology

[NYer]

I see a lot of Roman Catholic dogma being mentioned, but just curious, are these authoritative interpretations of the Bible, or one man’s suggestions?

As far as I can see, he is not quoting Catholic dogma. It helps, however, to be familiar with his upbringing.

I went to my synagogue's after-school Jewish religious education program ("Hebrew School") all the way through grammer and high school.  By high school it was the main focus of my identity and activities, even though by that point there were only about a half-dozen of us who had continued in the program.  I was very close to my rabbi and to several of the seminarians who were my Hebrew school teachers.  As Providence had it, my hometown rabbi was Arthur Hertzberg.  One of the highest-profile rabbis in the U.S., he was president of the American Jewish Congress, advisor to several presidents, and wrote a number of best-selling books on Judaism and Jewish history.  My favorite Hebrew school teacher, with whom I was particularly close, also became a very prominent rabbi who later headed the largest Jewish rabbinical seminary in the U.S..
 
Growing up I was unusually devout and passionate about God and Judaism, although the suburban conservative context I was in did not really support a life of piety, faith and prayer. In my senior year of high school I met a very charismatic "mystic" Hasidic Rabbi (Shlomo Carlebach) who used to go around the country giving "concerts" which were really prayer meetings over which he would preside, playing guitar and leading Hasidic worship songs, interspersed with religious story-telling and teaching. He had a large following among Jewish hippies and college students.   I fell in with him, and spent the following summer traveling with him in Israel in his entourage.  I wanted to live my life for God and with God, and while in Israel I considered abandoning my plans to go to M.I.T. in order to stay in Israel studying at one of the Jerusalem yeshivas (which are schools where young men devote their time to prayer and religious study, the closest thing Judaism has to religious life).  But I was turned off by a certain sterility and coldness which I saw in them, and which did not speak of real intimacy with God.

He is coming from a solid foundation in Jewish scripture, which is far more than the books we read in the OT. Add to this the experience he had on Cape Cod.

During the spring of 1987 I took a few days off from work and went to Cape Cod to spend time in the nature there.  I was walking in the early morning, in the woods just back from the beach, when God intervened, dramatically and distinctly, into my life to pull me back and put me onto the right path.  As I was walking, lost in my thoughts, I found myself in the immediate presence of God.  It is as though I "fell into Heaven."  Everything changed from one moment to the next, but in such a smooth and subtle way that I was not aware of any discontinuity.  I felt myself in the immediate presence of God.  I was aware of His infinite exaltedness, and of His infinite and personal love for me.  I saw my life as though I was looking back on it after death, in His presence, and could see everything which I would be happy about and everything which I would wish I had done differently.  I saw that every action I had ever done mattered, for good or for evil.  I saw that everything which had ever happened in my life had been perfectly designed for my own good from the infinitely wise and loving hand of God, not only including but especially those things which I at the time I thought had been the greatest catastrophes.  I saw that my two greatest regrets when I died would be every moment which I had wasted not doing anything of value in the eyes of God, and all of the time and energy which I had wasted worrying about not being loved when every moment of my existence I was bathed in an infinite sea of love, although unaware of it.  I saw that the meaning and purpose of my life was to worship and serve my Lord and Master, in whose presence I found myself.  I wanted to know His name, so that I could worship Him properly, so that I could follow "His" religion.  I remember silently praying "Tell me your name.  I don't mind if You're Apollo, and I have to become a Roman pagan.  I don't mind if You're Krishna, and I have to become a Hindu.  I don't mind if You're Buddha, and I have to become a Buddhist.  As long as You're not Christ, and I have to become a Christian!" (Jewish readers might be able to identify with this deep-rooted aversion to Christianity, based on the mistaken belief that it was the "enemy" which lay behind two thousand years of persecution of the Jews.)

Not surprisingly, He did not tell me His name. Obviously, I wasn't ready to hear it — my resistance at the time was still too great.  But I knew, from that moment on, the meaning and purpose and goal of my life; and that sense has not faded or wavered, although the immediate state of perception did.

When I got back home, everything was different. 

Roy Schoeman has stood in the presence of God and reviewed his life. This is an extraordinary occurence. God chose him for a particular reason. As he said: But I knew from that moment on, the meaning and purpose and goal of my life; and that sense has not faded or wavered ... .

This is only one chapter from the book which is well worth reading. And, if you are interested in the rest of his conversion story, you will find it here.

[topcat54]

Thanks for the additional info, but you did not answer my question, are these authoritative interpretations of the Bible, or one man’s suggestions?

Regarding Schoeman’s views, Robert Sungenis has made the charge that "… Roy Schoeman, claims in his book, Salvation is from the Jews (an erroneously anachronistic title in itself) that ‘two thousand years of Catholic theology’ made an ‘error’ teaching us that the ‘Old Covenant was entirely replaced, made null and void, by the New.’"

Is there an imprimatur on the book?

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Thanks for this thread.

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Bringing to your attention this thread regarding the Gog/Magog prophesy in Ezekiel 38, 39 (how it started) and now is basically a discussion of the two distinct views in (I believe the posters come from these points of view) Protestant Christian circles re: whether or not the prophecies that involve the NATION of Israel and the people of God, the Jewish people, were all fulfilled in the first coming in the birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus Christ and in the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and in the church becoming the one to whom the promises made by God to Israel are now already fulfilled...with no future fulfillment to take place.

It's very interesting to read on this thread the viewpoint of a Jewish Rabbi who is now a "completed" Jew = a Christian - who obviously would not agree that the promises and prophetic Words spoken by God's prophets have already beenfulfilled or are being fulfilled in the church of Jesus Christ where all we who believe in Jesus Christ and who are In Christ are ONE in Christ, there is no distinction between Jew and Christian, that dividing wall has been torn down.

These others have been pinged to this thread. Hopefully some will come here and discuss...since I know I have not accurately described the different views.

[Thinkin' Gal]

–The Jewish nation will be reborn in a single day (Isaiah 66:5-8):

"Hear the word of the LORD.... Hark, an uproar from the city! A voice from the temple! The voice of the LORD, rendering recompense to his enemies! Before she was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she was delivered of a son. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her sons."

This was quite literally fulfilled when on May 14, 1948, the modern State of Israel was born in a single day following the passage of UN Resolution 181 partitioning "Palestine" into the Arab State of Jordan and the Jewish State of Israel.

Never mind sloppy theology permeating this article, I just thought it was interesting that at the same time I saw this thread, I had this image open in another window:

"Jewish state" was crossed out and changed to "State of Israel". Of course it's a Jewish state, but I've always been intrigued by the particular change. That is, a home was created for the House of Judah, but the House of Israel was (is) MIA. Yet the new home is named Israel, with a deemphasis on the term "Jewish". Thus, the *whole* state of Israel was born before the labor of his (the house of Israel's) return.

Furthermore, the page does not have a title, nor a formal structure such as "To:", "From:", "Re:", "Date:". It's just a proclamation of being, with a signature of approval, and a time at the end that is separated from the date. It looks more like a chapter and verse reference.

Hosea 6:11 Also, O Judah, he hath set an harvest for thee, when I returned the captivity of my people.

6.11. Also, O Judah, he has set a harvest for you; When I would have returned the captivity of my people:

Not to mention that the statement is the first recognition of Israel from the chief of nations, the United States, made by a President named TRUman.

Before she labored she gave birth. Can the irony get any thicker?

Jeremiah 31:6-9

6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
7 For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

[Lijahsbubbe]

How interesting. Definitely more than a document. A proclamation that would change the world from that moment on.

[William Terrell]

It's interesting to note that every nation on Earth has been created in one day. Some declaration always institutes a nation, and that declaration must made on some one day.