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To: pinochet
If Ted Haggard had gone to be with the Lord early last year, while in the process of getting a "massage" from his male "friend", would he have gone straight to heaven?

What if you, as a Catholic, were getting a "massage" from your wife (I mean the same thing you meant with the quotes and all) with no intent to complete the conjugal act, and went to meet the Lord? (Not a bad way to go, in my opinion, but just asking, in light of Catholic teaching).

87 posted on 10/28/2007 6:04:03 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hunter 2008)
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To: Larry Lucido; proxy_user; pinochet
Larry, you're avoiding the question. Clearly, in this case, "massage" is a euphemism for the conjucal act.

So I'll answer it. What if Haggard was engaging in a homosexual act at the time of death would he go to heaven?

Engaging in sin of any kind at the time of death is not what will send you to hell. Not having repented and accepted Jesus as Savior at the time of death is what will send you to hell.

So if Haggard was a Christian, and he fell to temptation and happened to die while committing the act, Jesus act on the cross would still cover the sin, and he would still go to heaven. However, scripture also says...

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

What does that mean? It can't mean that any one of these acts bans you from heaven, because every person listed in the New Testament hall of faith had committed one of these sins, and usually long after their relationship with God had been in place. Noah got drunk, Abraham fornicated, David committed adultery and murder, etc...

But it is a call to examine your faith. Just like James calls people who have no works, no evidence of the fruit of the spirit in their lives, to examine their faith to see if it's real, so too people who make these things a way of life may not really have faith in Jesus. But only God knows for sure.

Proxy_user took a lot of heat for saying that Christians don't feel like sinning. I agree with the others, that's not exactly true. But a Christian should have internal conflict. Over time, that internal conflict should drive the Christian away from such sins. Even as the fruit of the Spirit in his life should draw him to good works.

But that growth doesn't always happen and the scripture does describe a carnal Christian as the seed that grew up but was choked by the cares of this world and produced no fruit and as one whose "works are burned, yet he is saved, although as a man running from a house on fire"

111 posted on 10/28/2007 6:36:20 PM PDT by DannyTN
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