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To: fortheDeclaration
Yet, all (except Judas)were saved men before Christ went to the Cross.

They could only be saved as all before the cross could be saved, by faith in the unseen. IOW, faith that God the Father would not abandon them and he didn't he sent his Son to pay the price none could.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

The surviving eleven Apostles did not understand the enormity of what Jesus did until the resurrected Jesus appeared to them. They had no special belief, or faith.

Mark 16:14-16 Later he appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The Apostles were ordinary flawed people like us. Despite seeing all the miracles they didn't "get it" until after the resurrection. If they did truly understand they would have followed Jesus to the Cross and been on a Cross as well.

It seems this is the dividing line between dispensationalism and premillenialism. As a premill, I believe everyone from all ages has had the same criteria applied to them for justification. You are either righteous, or you have Faith in Jesus.

1,655 posted on 11/22/2007 6:29:37 AM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights
[Yet, all (except Judas)were saved men before Christ went to the Cross.]

They could only be saved as all before the cross could be saved, by faith in the unseen. IOW, faith that God the Father would not abandon them and he didn't he sent his Son to pay the price none could. Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. The surviving eleven Apostles did not understand the enormity of what Jesus did until the resurrected Jesus appeared to them. They had no special belief, or faith. Mark 16:14-16 Later he appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. The Apostles were ordinary flawed people like us. Despite seeing all the miracles they didn't "get it" until after the resurrection. If they did truly understand they would have followed Jesus to the Cross and been on a Cross as well. It seems this is the dividing line between dispensationalism and premillenialism. As a premill, I believe everyone from all ages has had the same criteria applied to them for justification. You are either righteous, or you have Faith in Jesus.

Everything you said is true, but the Apostles did not believe that Christ had to die for their sins, they thought that He had come to be the Jewish Messiah and rule a Kingdom (hence the question they asked about ruling in a kingdom (Matthew 20:21).

So, if the Apostles were not saved by believing on Christ dying for their sins, they had to be saved by believing in something else.

In their case, they believed the promises made to Israel and thus, were all saved men before Christ even chose them as His Apostles (with the exception of Judas)

Today, no one is saved unless they believe that Christ died for them on the Cross and rose again.

Thus, the content of the Gospel has changed, but not the method (faith by grace).

Ofcourse, Christ had to die for all of the sins of the world since that would be the legal basis of salvation from Adam through the final death in the Millennium.

1,698 posted on 11/23/2007 6:32:42 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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