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To: Secret Agent Man
For the sake of understanding your point of view: do you believe the Apostles' Creed? The Nicene Creed?

"What we do not see are examples of anyone teaching or promoting the idea of praying to dead Christians (absent from the body, present with the Lord), so that they in turn can take our prayers to God for us. There is nothing biblical about this. Paul never taught it."

But John did:

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.

Revelation 8:3-4
Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God's people, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God's people, went up before God from the angel's hand.

Clearly the citizens of heaven are offering the prayers of all God's people to God.

Surely you believe you are in a state of spiritual interconnection with people you cannot see. Do you stop praying for and with people if you don't have their phone number or their e-mail address? Isn't a fellow-Christian in heaven as close to you, or closer, than one in Passaic NJ?

It seems you believe in a boxed-up, compartmentalized Church, part-dead, part-living, out-of-touch and altogether incommunicado. But Christ teaches us we are all part of His body, utterly beyond the limitations of time and space, and utterly alive.

When you see us all as united in the living Christ, it's really quite beautiful.

65 posted on 10/25/2007 1:14:30 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you, but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Your revelation examples are symbolic language. The whole book of revelation has many symbolic passages. It is symbolism. Further your example does not mention any specific dead person by name that the prayers were offered to, only that the prayers are in a bowl being held or moved around by angels or an elder. No names. Symbolic. You need to learn the difference between symbolism and literal language.

Second, the whole do I forget to pray for someone if I don’t have their phone # or email? You’re talking about people who are still alive on the earth that I can actually physically contact in some way.

You fail to understand that there is a divide between the living and the dead. Yes the dead in Christ are part of the Church Universal, but that does not mean that those still alive on the earth can communicate to them as if there were still here in their bodies. Once someone dies, Christian or not, there are certain avenues of communication that no longer work. Being part of the body of Christ does not mean you can access every part of the body of Christ the same way. God’s Word says you don’t try to talk to the dead (those no longer in their physical bodies).

Cmon people it’s not that hard.


74 posted on 10/25/2007 1:24:53 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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