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To: Alamo-Girl

I hope you might entertain a deconstruction of your argument and consider a couple of follow-up questions.

1. Your initial premise holds that Revelation is mostly transcendent and, perhaps, all immanent Revelation is always qualified by the Spirit or spiritual.

2. You then hold that Revelation is transmitted multifariously . As proof you quote Scripture talking about differing gifts of the Spirit.

3. Finally, you find unity only in Christ himself and by implication that no unity on the knowledge of God is possible in the finite world and any definitive universal knowledge of God is only possible in the Eschaton. (note: When i say “definitive universal knowledge of God” i do not mean an all encompassing knowledge of God.)

Questions:

1. What role does creation play in the knowledge of God?

2. Why must the differing gifts of the Spirit NECESSARILY imply a multifarious knowledge of God?

3. What’s the connection between the individual triumphs and failures of the churches in Revelation two and three and Christ’s reaction to them that “reveal(s) the oneness which transcends the disputes or resentments within the body of Christ”?

Thanks for your consideration.


676 posted on 10/31/2007 11:07:22 AM PDT by the_conscience
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To: the_conscience; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
Thank you for your reply, insights and questions!

1. What role does creation play in the knowledge of God?

So that man will have no excuse. Which is to say, everyone shall be held accountable for noticing the revelation of God in His Creation:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. - Romans 1:18-21

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. – Psalms 19:1-3

Your next question:

2. Why must the differing gifts of the Spirit NECESSARILY imply a multifarious knowledge of God?

Because our understanding of God is filtered by who we are and our experiences. Only the virgin Mary experienced what she did. Ditto for Moses. Ditto for you. Ditto for me.

We are like gemstones through which God’s Light shines into the world. We tint or diffuse that Light by our individuality.

There is meaning in the foundation stone metaphor here:

And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. – Revelation 21:19-20

Some stones, like onyx, reflect light. With others, the light shines through.

Perfect clear diamonds pass the light unfiltered, unaltered, such that if dropped in pure water, they cannot be seen at all.

I strive to be a diamond, by the way – but will likely be an amethyst. LOL!

You continued:

3. What’s the connection between the individual triumphs and failures of the churches in Revelation two and three and Christ’s reaction to them that “reveal(s) the oneness which transcends the disputes or resentments within the body of Christ”?

The lamps are all before Christ and the angels of the churches are in His hand - and He is the one judging them. He is the unity – the First Cause and Final Cause, Alpha and Omega.

And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. – Revelation 1:12-20

With each church, Christ gives His commendations and rebukes for their particular circumstance. Only the church of Philadelphia (loving) and the church of Smyrna (suffering) escape rebuke.

693 posted on 10/31/2007 12:39:15 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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