Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Uncle Chip; Lee N. Field; JohnnyM; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings
All of that above happened in 70 AD and is past history without a doubt, but Luke continues with what would happen after 70 AD, and what has been going on for the last 1937 years:

That’s your theory, but it is not supported by the text and context.

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place." (v. 32)

The context makes it clear that all these events, as symbolized by cataclysmic language reminiscent of the OT prophets (cf. Isa. 13:10) would fall upon "this generation". The plain sense of the text is Jesus was referring to His first century contemporaries. The futurist/literalist makes the mistake of ignoring the OT and assuming that "sun, moon, stars" are a reference to physical things. They are not. They are consistent with the OT language used to describe temporal judgments that would fall upon nations at various times.

Futurists don’t wish to deal with this truth. They are content to ignore the rest of the Bible and invent their own theories out of whole clothe. You yoursef cannot muster any other text of Scripture to support your theories.

If you interpret Matthew 24 and Luke 21 by the standard of the OT prophecies, and not by the theories of modern pop futurists, then you will see that all is consistent with an AD70 fulfillment.

638 posted on 10/31/2007 6:40:53 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 634 | View Replies ]


To: topcat54; Alamo-Girl; Uncle Chip; All
"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place." (v. 32)

This is a super key Scripture between the two camps. Misconstruing this Scripture has led to all kinds of illogical, UNBiblical and Unhistorical . . . eternally hazardous theological balderdash.

The deceased DEAN OF BIBLICAL PROPHECY of our era . . . John F Walvoord in his EVERY PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE pp390-391, 392 notes:

"A common interpretation has been to interpret the fig tree as a type of Israel and the revival of Israel as the budding of the fig tree. The fig tree could very well be a type of Israel, but it does not seem to be so used in Scripture. . . . There is no indication in the interpretation of Matthew 21:18-22 and Mark 11:12-14, 20-26 that relates the fig tree to Israel. Accordingly, though many have followed this interpretation, there is no scriptural basis."

"A better alternative is the simple explanation that the fig tree is used as a natural illustration. Because the fig tree by its nature brings forth leaves late in spring, if one sees leaves on a fig tree, it is evidence that summer is very near. This illustration is carried over to the second coming of Christ. When the events described in the preceding verses occur, it will be a clear indication of the second coming of Christ being near. The sign in the passage is not the revival of Israel, which is not the subject of Matthew 24, but rather the details of the Great Tribulation which occur in the three-and-a-half years preceding the Second Coming. Accordingly, 'all these things' (v.33) refers not to the revival of Israel but to the events of the Great Tribulation. It is true, however, that Israel will have a measure of revival preceding the second coming of Christ, but this is based on other scriptural revelation rather than the reveltaion presented here."

The Generation to See the Fulfillment

"Jesus made a further comment on the situation in saying, 'This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away' (Matt. 24:34-35) . . . Obviously, the generation that lived in Christ's day did not see all the things described in the preceding context. Some have inferred from this that the term 'generation' is a reference to Israel and have asserted that Israel will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled. However, Israel will never pass away. Still other scholars take 'generation as an indefinite period of time."

"The most natural meaning, however, is to take it as normally used as a reference to a period of twenty-five to forty years. But instead of referring this to the time in which Christ lived, it refers back to the preceding period that is described as the Great Tribulation. As the Great Tribulation is only three-and-a-half years long, obviously, those who see the Great Tribulation will also see the coming of the Lord. Regardless of how it is interpreted, Christ affirmed, in support of the fulfillment of the prophecy, that His words will never pass away even though our present earth and heaven will ultimately be destroyed."

My personal conviction about "generation" is all the cohorts born in a period of time. And, as long as at least one person is left of those cohorts born when Israel became a Nation again in 1948 will be alive to see all the other asscociated predictions come to pass, I believe that Scripture will be fulfilled to the letter literally.

In any case, I think the recognized Dean of Prophecy in our era--Walvoord--makes some worthy points. He certainly blows the Replacementarian construction on reality clear out of the water.

I realize that Biblical logic, accuracy along with historical accuracy is not a Replacementarian strong point . . . It is nice to see a scholar such as Walvoord come down on the side of Biblical logic and historical accuracy.

660 posted on 10/31/2007 9:33:26 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 638 | View Replies ]

To: topcat54

The context makes it clear that all these events, as symbolized by cataclysmic language reminiscent of the OT prophets (cf. Isa. 13:10) would fall upon “this generation”. The plain sense of the text is Jesus was referring to His first century contemporaries. The futurist/literalist makes the mistake of ignoring the OT and assuming that “sun, moon, stars” are a reference to physical things. They are not. They are consistent with the OT language used to describe temporal judgments that would fall upon nations at various times.

= = =

HOGWASH. UTTER BRAZEN NONSENSE. Most illogical on the face of it.

More rubber Bible mangling, rationalizing mumbo jumbo to slip and slide out from under the plain meaning of the text.


661 posted on 10/31/2007 9:35:13 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 638 | View Replies ]

To: topcat54

Futurists don’t wish to deal with this truth. They are content to ignore the rest of the Bible and invent their own theories out of whole clothe. You yoursef cannot muster any other text of Scripture to support your theories.

If you interpret Matthew 24 and Luke 21 by the standard of the OT prophecies, and not by the theories of modern pop futurists, then you will see that all is consistent with an AD70 fulfillment.

= = =

It’s hard to imagine statements further from Biblical truth. The above assertions are essentially THE ABJECT OPPOSITE of Biblical truth.

The WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE MUCH MORE GREATLY AFFIRMS THE DISPY CONSTRUCTIONS ON REALITY. Sheesh.

Dispy constructions on reality are not invented at all but are mere summaries of CLEAR SCRIPTURAL STATEMENTS.

We don’t have to muster Scriptures to support our NONtheories—we merely cite Scriptures themselves. The Dispy constructions on reality are stated plainly in Scripture over and over and over again.

NEITHER HISTORY NOR SCRIPTURE supports any 70AD fulfillment of such prophetic Scriptures.

Constructions to the contrary are what is created brazenly afresh out of whole cloth.

But I am used to Replacementarians Rubber Bibles and Rubber history books and Rubber dictionaries stretching reality all out of recognition.


662 posted on 10/31/2007 9:40:15 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 638 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson