It becomes apparent (weeks ago) that LDS will cite the Church Fathers where it serves to valid the heresies in Mormonism, but will scoff at the Church history in general as apostate. The bait and switch, switcheroo, and dissembling is more than my feeble intellect can keep up with without a scorecard/playbill. Nice pictures though ... and how much do you understand about the history of baptism in Judaism?
Even when they cite church fathers, they misrepresent what is said and being communicated.
On one hand, they cite the church fathers when they think they support the Mormon position, then on the other hand they impune them, saying they were apostate. A most dishonest tactic.
That's just it though, isn't it. The earliest Christian Fathers doctrines were more closely aligned with the LDS beliefs than the later ones that came out of Rome. When you say that we discount church history, yes, we discount the creeds that happened 400 years after Christ. But the ones who lived original Christianity, we praise and acknowledge their contributions to doctrinal accuracy.
Now, this post was a response to the early Fathers views of baptism. What are your thoughts on them? Do you even acknowledge them as early Christian doctrines? How can you explain them away? You didn't reply to them, just accused me.
Here they are again, it's been so long since I posted them.
"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Justin Martyr, First Apology 61, in ANF 1:183.
"And dipped himself," says [the Scripture], "seven times in Jordan." It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [it served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: "Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." A fragment attributed to Irenaeus, in ANF 1:574, brackets in original.
"And do not think, though you were more pious than all the pious that ever were, but if you be unbaptized, that you shall ever obtain hope. For all the more, on this account, you shall endure the greater punishment, because you have done excellent works not excellently. For well-doing is excellent when it is done as God has commanded. But if you will not be baptized according to His pleasure, you serve your own will and oppose His counsel. But perhaps some one will say, What does it contribute to piety to be baptized with water? In the first place, because you do that which is pleasing to God; and in the second place, being born again to God of water, by reason of fear you change your first generation, which is of lust, and thus you are able to obtain salvation. But otherwise it is impossible. For thus the prophet has sworn to us, saying, "Verily I say to you, Unless ye be regenerated by living water into the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven." Clementine Homilies 11:25-26, in ANF 8:289-290.
Nay, he that, out of contempt, will not be baptized, shall be condemned as an unbeliever, and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says: "Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven." And again: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Apostolic Constitutions 6:15, in ANF 7:456-457.
And to answer your question, the rituals of Jewish "mikvah" are well known. Here is a good article from wikepedia on them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikvah
Just so you know, the LDS believe that baptism was an ordinance of obedience before Christ. John the baptist wasn't the first one to practice it. We believe that baptism has existed as a requirement for God's chosen and obedient peoples since the time of Adam.
Here is a reference to consider. The Lord warns Israel that even after the ritual the "waters of judah", they were still disobedient and foretells their Babylonian captivity.
Isaiah 48: 1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.