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To: DragoonEnNoir

“Peter is addressing “God’s elect, strangers in the world” (1Pe 1:1b), who have been given “new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (ibid 1:3b). Peter is clearly addressing all those who have come to Christ throughout these passages. He tells them that they are all to be a holy priesthood... ***thus a priesthood of all believers.***”

That last phrase is your own interpretation, it is what you are reading into the text. The passage says nothing of how one obtains the priesthood, it only acknowledges the presence of the priesthood in the church and from that you are jumping to a conclusion that simply being in the church confers priesthood on someone.

“In the Old Testament, we are told that among the roles of the priest were to offer up sacrifices of atonement (see Leviticus) and to teach the Law to the people of Israel . They thus stood between men and God, acting as mediators.”

Again, that is your take on it. They performed ordinances and taught, but they did so as servants of God, not as a mediator between man and God.

Also, the context of the verse that you cite is in reference to praying, we pray to the Father in the name of Christ. We can not pray to the Father directly (no mediator), and we can not pray in the name of any other person and have it received by the Father. Only through Christ can we approach the Father so we must pray in Christ’s name to have it received by the Father. All believers can pray, but that doesn’t mean they all have the priesthood, the priesthood isn’t even the topic here.

“It goes on that these people (“them”… all who have been purchased through Christ’s blood) have been made into “priests to serve our God”. All believers into a priesthood… the priesthood of all believers. I read what the text clearly says to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.”

You are reading into the text what you see as you look at it through the lens of the dogma you have already accepted. The text says nothing of how one comes to obtain the priesthood, once again it only acknowledges the presence of the priesthood in the church. Likewise for 1Pe 4:9. Nowhere does it say that simply being a believing member of the church grants a person any kind of priesthood authority, it only recognizes the existence of the priesthood in the church.

“(My comment on this) No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was. (He 5:4)
This passage talks of Christ in His role as High Priest, but if you choose to extend its meaning even to the priesthood of all believers, they too do not take the honor upon themselves, but are “called (by God) to belong to Jesus Christ” (Ro 1:6). I’m not sure how in either sense this contradicts the priesthood of all believers.”

Heb 5:
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, ...
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Here we have a very clear statement on how one comes to be a holder of the priesthood. They are ordained in the same manner that Aaron was.

“And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office.” (Ex 28:41)

Ex 40:15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office:

Lev 8:12 And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron’s head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.

If there was a priesthood of all believers, then anyone could have conducted the sacrifices or carried the ark of the covenant but that was not so, in fact Nachon was struck dead for touching the ark (2Sam 6:6-7)

Arron didn’t just get to minister on the basis that he was a believer, he was specifically called by God, by revelation to a prophet, and ordained to his position by Moses who was given authority of God.

We see the same pattern in the NT...

Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you

Act 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church...

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

There was no ‘priesthood of all believers’ in the OT or the NT, the priesthood was held only by those who were ordained to it. The whole idea of a ‘priesthood of all believers’ is a very bad one as well. Anyone can claim to be a believer and such a system leaves the door wide open for wolves in sheep’s clothing to enter in, claim authority, and mislead many.

“These 7 Sons of Sceva were not followers of Christ, but rather attempted to use His name for their own purposes.”

They believed that demons could be cast out in the name of Christ (otherwise they would not have done what they did), but that belief didn’t grant them any authority or power.

“It is obviously not human ordination or title that grants authority to cast out demons as Paul and other disciples were doing.”

How is it obvious when those doing so were ordained? Why would they even be ordained if there was no authority or power passed on in that manner?

“It is God alone who grants the title of priest.”

Yes, and he does that by revealing to his authorized servants who it is God wants them to ordain to that authority. This idea of a priesthood of all believers is a later invention of men, it is a spin off of the Reformation and didn’t exist before that time because with the Reformation came a need to somehow justify the existence of churches that could not trace back a line of authority to the apostles.

“Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most High Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, by his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God (He 10:19-20)”

It still does not say that all believers are priests by virtue of being believers. It only indicates that through Christ’s atonement we can enter God’s presence, the Most Holy Place being symbolic of being in God’s presence.

“I have answered using scripture to explain itself.”

You have quoted verses and then read into them ideas not stated in the text.

“If Mormonism does not even get these elemental teachings correct, how can you accuse Christians of interpreting incorrectly?”

Saying that you are right, so since we disagree we are wrong is not a sound argument, it is just your bias. We claim to have living prophets and apostles who through revelation know the fullness of the gospel. Where orthodox Christianity goes contrary to the revelations of God available to us, we hold orthodox Christianity to be in error.

D&C 42:11 Again I say unto you, that it shall not be given to any one to go forth to preach my gospel, or to build up my church, except he be ordained by some one who has authority, and it is known to the church that he has authority and has been regularly ordained by the heads of the church.

Alma 6:1 And now it came to pass that after Alma had made an end of speaking unto the people of the church, which was established in the city of Zarahemla, he ordained priests and elders, by laying on his hands according to the order of God, to preside and watch over the church.

Alma 13
1 And again, my brethren, I would cite your minds forward to the time when the Lord God gave these commandments unto his children; and I would that ye should remember that the Lord God ordained priests, after his holy order, which was after the order of his Son, to teach these things unto the people.
2 And those priests were ordained after the order of his Son, in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner to look forward to his Son for redemption.

D&C 20:60 Every elder, priest, teacher, or deacon is to be ordained...

D&C 27:12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;


622 posted on 10/16/2007 1:07:18 PM PDT by Grig
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To: Grig
Grig, with all due respect, the text is clear. I have merely attempted to paraphrase something which you seem to blind yourself to. Because it does not use an exact phrase is a moot point. If you choose not to see what is there, it is not a matter of church fathers, how one becomes a priest, or interpretation. If your heart is hard, then it is a choice you have made to rebel against God.

I have had the privilege of meeting people from around the world who have come to Christ. We have been from different (or no) denomination, have had different native languages, and come from very different socio-economic backgrounds... yet the God through His Word has spoken to us equally. You speak of ‘what our teachers’ have taught us. Our teacher has been God, through His Word, tested by the Holy Spirit within a body of believers. He is the only good teacher.

You place much store in theologians and people. But men can only affect your body. There is One who has power over both your body and your soul.

The divisions you seek so hard to find are in your own heart. I do not say this to criticize you, but to remind you that there will be a judgment by One who sees the heart of men.

May Our Lord's peace and grace be with you, and may He lead you to paths of righteousness.

668 posted on 10/16/2007 11:36:12 PM PDT by DragoonEnNoir
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