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To: aMorePerfectUnion
If subjective experience is the basis of truth, then there is no truth because everyone’s subjective experience differs. Truth with a capital T doesn’t conflict with itself. Hence, subjective experience can never be the basis of truth.

As I said before, a subjective experience is one that is personal or private, and not shared by others. Such experiences can be true. If it were not so, then you have to reject the following "subjective" experiences:

55 But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, (Acts 7:55-57).

9 ¶ On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. (Acts 10:9-16)

9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. (Acts 16:9–10)

11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome. (Acts 23:11)

Those are examples taken from just one book of the Bible, the book of Acts. The rest of the Bible is full of accounts of "subjective" experiences: dreams, visions, angelic visitations, and so on. Indeed, take away everything but what would be considered "objective" by today's standards and there would not be much left of the Bible.
539 posted on 10/14/2007 3:04:56 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: Logophile

Logophile,

When you see the glory of God and Christ standing at the
right hand of God, let me know. This was Stephen, the first
martyr of the Church.

When you have a real vision of heaven opened up an a sheet
being lowered, let me know! This was Peter, an original
Apostle of God.

When you see a Macedonian beckoning to you, let me know.
This was the Apostle Paul, chosen by Christ to bring the
gospel to the gentiles.

Your attempts to make their experience normative is
laughable... or at least it would be if the eternal
consequences were not tragic.

This would go back to the failure of mormonism to understand
basic Bible study.

Good try though. You and Jeffords the restored polygamist,
Mormon leader...

and Sun Myung Moon, the self-declared “Christ” and his
Moonie followers are on the same path -

substituting subjective experiences for objective truth.
Based on your subjective experience, you then judge what
else is true.

You are not alone though. It is common among cults.


548 posted on 10/14/2007 4:16:57 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (j)
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