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To: Grig
Sorry for the long delay Grig. We’ve been having server problems here.

As a prelude, you may want to check your information sources carefully. The support for horses and iron you cite is incredibly vague and is based on only a single citation each. The citation for horses is furthermore an ‘anonymous’ article in a Mormon magazine... not exactly strong evidential support.

You mention that you believe Christians interpret the Bible incorrectly. Could you give examples please?

In an earlier post, you defend the position that God was a man, and then go on to say that it is not doctrinal LDS belief. Yet the statement was made by your prophet Joseph Smith. He states that, “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil”, which makes it quite clear that he is presenting this as something from above. If he is a prophet, why do you not accept his teachings on this? If he is not a prophet, then why do you follow him?

The premise that Smith puts forth has huge theological implications, as does the your assertion that men become gods in LDS theology. As a starting premise, this in itself flies against scripture, and contradicts who the God of the Bible declares himself to be.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Rev 1:8)

Hear oh Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Dt 6:4)

For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the heavens. (1 Ch16:26)

God is the great I AM. The Jews attempted to stone Jesus when he even used those words. We are called to be ‘imitators of God, as dearly loved children’, but we do not become God.

There is only One who is good. (Mt 19:17)

No one is good- except God alone. (Mk 10:18b)

A man who becomes a ‘god’ is neither the creator of all things, nor good/sinless. He is in essence not god.

Thank you for your kind invitation to read the Book of Mormon. I am content and entirely satisfied with the full truth I read in the Bible, but should I have time I will certainly not hesitate to look through more of the Book of Mormon. Time is always short however, and I try to fill my time with that which is most beneficial and glorifying to God... though I fall short with frequency.

530 posted on 10/14/2007 9:24:22 AM PDT by DragoonEnNoir
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To: DragoonEnNoir

“The citation for horses is furthermore an ‘anonymous’ article in a Mormon magazine... not exactly strong evidential support.”

That article is from a peer-reviewed journal, and if you check the footnote in that article associated with the quote you see that data being refered to comes from a respected non-LDS source, specifically:

Harry E. D. Pollock and Clayton E. Ray, “Notes on Vertebrate Animal Remains from Mayapan,” Current Reports 41 (August 1957): 638; this publication is from the Department of Archaeology at the Carnegie Institution of Washington. See also Clayton E. Ray, “Pre-Columbian Horses from Yucatan,” Journal of Mammalogy 38 (1957): 278.

Likewise, the information about tons of Olmec iron artifacts comes from Dr. Anne Cyphers of the National Autonomous University of Mexico, a non-LDS Olmec specialist.

As I said before however, even a total lack of any evidence proves nothing, and even absolute proof of that the Nephite civilization did exist still doesn’t prove that the BoM is the word of God. If you want to know if it really is the word of God, you have to find that out from God.

“You mention that you believe Christians interpret the Bible incorrectly. Could you give examples please?”

Interpreting the oneness of the Father and the Son as them being two persons but one being of one substance is a misinterpretation. One that leads to the false doctrine of the trinity. The doctrine that the sacrament as literally becoming the body and blood of Christ is likewise based on a misinterpretation. Original sin, the idea that baptism is optional, that there is to be no more scripture after the Bible, these also are the results of misinterpreting the Bible.

“In an earlier post, you defend the position that God was a man, and then go on to say that it is not doctrinal LDS belief.”

If by God you refer to Christ, yes, God was once a man as the NT says. If by God you mean the Father, there is no doctrine of ours that asserts he was ever mortal or that tries to explain his origin.

“Yet the statement was made by your prophet Joseph Smith ... If he is a prophet, why do you not accept his teachings on this? If he is not a prophet, then why do you follow him?”

Prophets do not share God’s omniscience. They get revelation on specific matters and on everything else they are free to form their own opinions. Those opinions are not infallible and they are not doctrinal either.

Just saying ‘Joseph said it so it must be their doctrine’ is false, that isn’t how the church operates. For something to be doctrine it must be endorsed by the whole First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve (all of whom hold the key of prophecy for the church) then formally presented to the members as doctrine.

“As a starting premise, this in itself flies against scripture, and contradicts who the God of the Bible declares himself to be.”

In post 218 I gave you many quotes from the early church fathers and other sources that clearly showed the idea of theosis was part of 1st century orthodox Christian teaching. The link I gave then give additional information, including the scriptural support.


543 posted on 10/14/2007 3:59:45 PM PDT by Grig
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