>> The personal witness of the Holy Ghost. <<
That answer SOUNDS so essential and meaningful: who could possibly refute the personal witness of the Holy Ghost? But can you provide an answer to how do we know it is the Holy Ghost speaking to us? Too often all sorts of Christians end up sounding like they are talking about Tinkerbell (”Do YOU believe in faeries,” as Wendy asked). The test of the truth of the bible isn’t in our hearts, for all manners of pagans believe deeply in their hearts the truth of what they say. The test of the bible is in the mind.
So, now, tell me what do you mean by “the personal witness of the Holy Ghost”? And how is this to be distinguished from what was experienced by so many members of other denominations which Smith considered so much rubbish that he thought far more highly of Mohammed?
I would say the test is in the mind and the heart. I have always been taught to study, ponder, and come to a decision, and then to pray for confirmation.
So, now, tell me what do you mean by “the personal witness of the Holy Ghost”?
I think you would find as many different answers to that question as there are Mormons. When it happens, you know.
And how is this to be distinguished from what was experienced by so many members of other denominations . . . ?
I have no doubt that God answers the prayers of all those who seek him in faith. Hence, if one asks to know by the power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus is the Savior, God will answer.
. . . other denominations which Smith considered so much rubbish that he thought far more highly of Mohammed?
I don't recall reading that Joseph Smith ever described the other Christian churches as "rubbish," even though he considered the post-Biblical creeds abominable. He once said,
If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I shall lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them that my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way. Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the Gospel of salvation he revealed? So do I. Christians should cease wrangling and contending with each other, and cultivate the principles of union and friendship . . . . (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 313-314).
Although I am sure that Joseph Smith wanted to save Muslims, I do not know how he regarded Mohammed. Since Joseph Smith's time, various leaders of the Church have expressed the opinion that God used Mohammed to accomplish his purposes.
If you don’t believe me when I say the Holy Ghost witnessed the truth of it to me, how is giving a detailed description of the experience going to change your mind? It’s still all just words typed by some stranger far away.
Besides, I don’t want you to rely on what I say, except to at least be open to the idea that it’s possible to pray about such things and get an answer from God. If you really want to know, apply the promise of the scriptures yourself and find out for yourself. Read the BoM, give it some honest consideration, and pray to God in the name of Christ to ask Him if it is true. God wants you to know the truth of it, he promised to answer such prayers when they are from sincere people with a real intent to find and live the truth.
How God will answer you is up to God, he knows how best to handle it for your case. When God does answer you, it will be by the power of the Holy Ghost, so the fruits of spirit (’love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance’ (Gal 5:22-23)) will be manifest at that time. Those positive, godly feelings will be with us when the Spirit is with us, Satan can’t give us those because he doesn’t have any of those and you can’t give what you don’t have. Satan relies on fear, intimidation, manipulation, confusion, anger, contention and other such fruits such as abound in his heart. In that way we can discern between the spirit of God and deceptions of Satan such as those that mislead others.
That answer SOUNDS so essential and meaningful: who could possibly refute the personal witness of the Holy Ghost? But can you provide an answer to how do we know it is the Holy Ghost speaking to us? Too often all sorts of Christians end up sounding like they are talking about Tinkerbell (”Do YOU believe in faeries,” as Wendy asked). The test of the truth of the bible isn’t in our hearts, for all manners of pagans believe deeply in their hearts the truth of what they say. The test of the bible is in the mind.
So, now, tell me what do you mean by “the personal witness of the Holy Ghost”? And how is this to be distinguished from what was experienced by so many members of other denominations which Smith considered so much rubbish that he thought far more highly of Mohammed?
dangus my reply to you was not met to be offensive but the track record of these threads and so much hostility coming from many or some who feel the need to debunk etc.
But as I read over this morning thread you are really trying to know how discern the different in relationship of is this really a Spirit from the Godhead or something else!
When I received my testimony from the Holy Ghost it was so gentle, sweet are full of Joy something the opposition can not give nor imitate because it is not in him to give.
Meaning those attributes can not exist in evil!
In Gal 5 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
John 16: 19, 23-24, 26, 30
19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?
• • •
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
• • •
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
• • •
30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
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Luke 11: 9, 11-13
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
• • •
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil,(in unclean state) know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Doc and Cov 9
6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.