Posted on 10/08/2007 6:08:42 AM PDT by NYer
Your church Father, Jerome, didn't believe you or your pope either...This is what he wrote for your church...
You people really think you can change YOUR traditions over time and it will affect the Holy Word of God???
You have made the word of God of none effect for Catholics, but it doesn't mean a thing to Christians who have a one on one personal relationship with the God who wrote the words in the Bible...
God says Mary had to get purified regardless of what your modern religion claims...That's the end of the conversation...Anything else is jibberish...
You guys really need to cut that apocryphal pseudoepigraphical Protoevangelium of James out of your required reading list, along with the works of those church fathers who had been taken in by it.
Mary’s sin offering (Luk 2:22), is like Jesus being circumcised, baptised and celebrating Passover: submitting to the law because it is the fitting thing to do.
But not exactly, right? Circumcision was the seal of the Abrahamic Covenant requiring no sin offering. Passover was a remembrance dinner of a one time event that happened in Egypt, not a sin offering. Baptism was not required by the Law, and while everyone else was baptized as sinners, Jesus was baptized as the Lamb that would be those sinners' sin offering.
There was only one sin offering that Jesus offered and that was Himself at the cross of Calvary and not for Himself but for everyone else, including His mother. The sin offering that Mary offered at her purification was for herself and herself alone and no one else -- for purification from the curse of sin that she carried in her blood like every other Jewish mother.
I will repeat. The Virgin Mary observed this Law not because She believed Herself to be defiled by giving birth to Christ, but to give an example of humility and obedience by fulfilling all outward observances. For the Virgin Mary was not subject to this particular law by virtue of what God Himself had laid down in prefacing it: "If a woman having received seed shall bear a man child, she shall be unclean seven days..." (v. 2 [Douai]). The conception and birth of Christ was not due to the reception of male seed but rather to the power of the Holy Spirit. In no way can it be claimed that in conceiving, bearing and delivering Christ the Virgin Mary was made "unclean."
She did it out of respect for the law ... period ... end of the discussion.
How else could they come up with such wonky reinventions such as 'less gifted'?
The clarification is that Christ IS THE Imaculate Conception, not Mary. She was 'full of Grace' meaning full of the spirit of God Himself. She had been predestined for this role as The mother of God begotten of the Spirit of God. Again, the seed of Original Sin IS transferred by way of sexual conception from the man. Mary's father gave her original sin...Mary was in need of Christ as are all men born of Original Sin. Christ was the ONLY second Adam, born or begotten without sin. The bible makes this very clear. The bible also makes very clear that we are to pray through and to him alone. Where in the bible does it tell us to pray through or to anyone else? Please answer with a scripture reference so I can read it.
Thank you, Athena
Amen!
When we have what could be seen as different interpretations, we should always chose the answer that...
1) does not contradict Scripture, and
2) glorifies God most clearly.
Falling down to the stock of a tree, regardless of which human being that tree has been chiseled to resemble, is still and always glorifying the creature and not the Creator.
No small error.
AMEN! Exactly!
Correcting the RCC's "Greek references" is a job in itself.
How much clearer are the admonitions against idolatry? Against falling down to the stock of a tree? Against silver and gold idols made with the hands of men?
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Timothy 2:5
In English, Greek, Latin, Portuguese or Braille, that one line contains more truth than all the errors of mariology put together.
The basis for the belief in the Immaculate Conception of Mary can be found in the Biblical revelation of holiness and the opposite of that state, sinfulness.
God is revealed as perfect interior holiness.
No sin or anything tainted with sin can stand in the face of the holiness of God. "Enmity" is that mutual hatred between Mary and sin, between Christ and sin.
For the birth of God as a human being, God was interested in the condition of the mother's womb. For even a great, but imperfect, judge of Israel, Samson, God was directive about the state of the mother during the pregnancy. The request for the mother to be pure is repeated for emphasis.
How much more would God be interested in the state of His own mother's womb!
The salutation of the Angel Gabriel is different from the usual angelic greeting. It indicates that Mary was exceptionally "highly favored with grace" (Greek: charitoo, used twice in the New Testament, in Lk 1:28 for Mary - before Christ's redemption; and Eph 1:6 for Christ's grace to us - after Christ's redemption).
Note that the angel's salutation preceded Mary's acquiescence. Mary was already highly favored. God's grace was not given in time after Mary accepted the angel's word. The Church believes that this grace was given from the very beginning of Mary's life. It is clearly grace because at the time of Mary's conception she could have done nothing to earn it.
Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
Our separated brothers and sisters don’t seem to realize that original or any sin in The Blessed Virgin Mary brings dishonor to Christ.
Original Sin resulted in the subjection of fallen man to sin, death, and Satan. The Early Christians understood that the Blessed Virgin could never, even for an instant,have been subject to sin and the power of the devil because she was to be united with Christ. This should make perfect sense to any Christian.Typology bears this out.Mary is greater than Adam and Eve without a doubt.
The Blessed Ever-Virgin Mary was “preserved from all stain of original sin” and this in her very conception as a human person. This was an utterly unique privilege granted her by her Redeemer Son since she was to be the All-Holy Mother of her All-Holy Divine Son. It was Christ Himself who chose her to be His Mother and chose to grant her this privilege of exemption from the stain of It is important to realize that Mary was not cleansed from the contracted stain of Original Sin as are all others needing to be cleansed and purified by the waters of Baptism (the sacrament instituted by Christ to remove the stain or guilt of original sin). She was rather PRESERVED from all stain of original sin at her creation so that she would be a “New Creation”, the “New Eve” who could and would cooperate synergistically with her Divine Son in both the Redemption of the human race, and in the Salvation of the human race from Sin.
The Blessed Virgin Mary cooperated in the Redemption and Salvation of mankind - as manifestations of Synergism. However, in her being preserved from original sin by a singular act of Christ the Redeemer, this involved no cooperation by the Blessed Virgin because there could be no “Yes” on her part as in her consent to the Incarnation at the Annunciation. There was no Synergism in the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin because she did not yet exist to give consent to the Redeemer’s preserving her from the stain of original sin.
The Blessed Mother is rightly termed Coredemptrix because of her unique participation in the redemptive work of her Divine Son. One cannot ignore the the rich biblical themes and import of her being the “Woman” of Genesis, the “Woman” at Cana, the “Woman” at the Foot of the Cross, and the “Woman” of the Apocalypse. No other creature was completely united with Christ in the Holy Spirit and no member of the Church cooperated fully with Christ in His work of Redemption and in the salvation of the human race for which she continually intercedes as our Mother in the order of supernatural grace.
I wish you a Blessed weekend!
No sin or anything tainted with sin can stand in the face of the holiness of God
Does the Holy Spirit indwell you? Have you stopped committing all sin in your life? Are you sinless today, or have you been forgiven of today's, yesterday's and tomorrow's sins through Christ on the cross?
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" -- Colossians 1:26-27"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Mary was a human being, a sinner in need of a Savior just like the rest of us. She was graced by God to be the human means for Christ's physical birth.
And once Christ was born, she had "Christ within her" in exactly the same manner you and I and all Christians have, by the grace of God alone.
Fini.
Because you make extreme, unbiblical leaps of logic. Sorry to be so blunt. Just because Mary was highly-favored does not mean that she was born without sin.
The Bible clearly says that Jesus had brothers and sisters, as does the historian Josephus, yet you let your preconceived notions of Mary lead you to pretend that what the Bible clearly states is not true. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible even gives names to the four brothers of Jesus: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but do not give names or numbers (Matthew 13:56). Luke 2:7 says that Mary gave birth to her firstborn son. If I were an only child, my parents would not call me their firstborn. Yes, I am very aware that Jesus is described as the "firstborn" in other ways as well, but Luke specifically describes Jesus as Mary's firstborn son. In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Later, in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother.
The scholar Josephus, who wrote in the first century, says this:
Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ [or, in some versions, the so-called Christ], whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned...You ignore what the Bible plainly says but read all sorts of things that aren't there into other parts of the Bible.
Why are the plain words of the Bible so difficult for you to understand?
The Pope states that these ideas had been floating around in Catholics minds for so long that they must be true, and apparently a poll was taken and everybody voted unanimously that it was all true. All agreed raised their hands and any dissenting could get the heck out, meeting adjourned.
The Pope states that these ideas had been floating around in Catholics minds for so long that they must be true, and apparently a poll was taken and everybody voted unanimously that it was all true. All agreed raised their hands and any dissenting could get the heck out, meeting adjourned.
You just know there are men sitting around a table in a dark room somewhere saying, "If they believe this, they'll believe anything."
Not only would we think him daft, we'd all leave his church and go somewhere else, and when he excommunicated us, we'd laugh or get him help.
LOL. In these parts, he'd be the one to leave. 8~)
Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings. Hence, the angel's greeting: "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28).
May God give you eyes to see the fiction of this statement and the heresy within it which has NO Scriptural support, although there are plenty of admonitions against such errors.
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