Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[restornu]

When one is joining the Church they are called investigators which I was and knew 80 per cent of the stuff before I was baptized it is no big secret an in those days it was not like today with internet.

I would go to Christian Book stores and buy the anti LDS stuff just to know but the Holy Spirit was very clear to me I read those book I got fear, a forboden, where as when I read the things of the Lord like the Bible or the Book of Mormon I received peace of mind, love and Joy the fruits of the spirit of the Lord!

Fear is not of the Lord!

[colorcountry]

Only in Mormonism, is questioning history akin to marrying your step-mother.

[colorcountry]

So you knew that Joseph Smith had about 33 wives when you were investigating?

How many did he sleep with?

[restornu]

Sorry about your spiritual eyes and ears!

RIP

[MHGinTN]

When I read the Bible I have peace, wonderment, joy, and am inspired. When I read the BM where whole sections from Isaiah or Ezekial or the epistles of Paul or the Gospels are plagarized I, before I realized they were plagarized i felt wonderment and inspiration. But when I read the fictional Book of Abraham, after finding through research that Smith was an adulterous conman, I found the fictional rendering of that Egyptian funerary document (purported to read as if a missive from Abraham), well, let’s just say the nausea was real when the complete absence of alphabet correspondence glared so openly. Then I felt anger that so many good people trying so hard to please God were led so far astray by the adulterous, lying, treasure hunter peepstone prophet. One is tempted to thank God that Smith didn’t live a few years later, when whole polyglots have become available to translate many languages in parallel. He could have fabricated a really persuasive false prophecy then! As it is, his lack of even three letters translated correctly from the Egyptian funerary document ends the fantasy that he was inspired by God.

[restornu]

When one have contempt towards their brother or habors recentment, anger they are operating from the the arm of flesh the Natural Man....

Mosiah 3: 19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

1 Cor. 2: 14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[colorcountry]

And I am sorry about your physical eyes and ears.

Peace, baby!

[restornu]

That;s right I hear now days theys suck out the cloudy film
and slip in a new len!

My cousin had it done last week and went grocery shope later that day!

[Sloth]

Public shunning (although it is denied) is an effective tool in controlling the behavior of others.

Why deny it?

"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17

"We command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which they received of us... And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed." II Thessalonians 3:6, 14

"But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person." I Corinthians 5:11

"Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them." -- Romans 16:17

[colorcountry]

God moves in mysterious ways.
His wonders to perform.
He plants his footsteps on the sea,
and rides upon the storm.

He even allows eyes to see and ears to hear!

[colorcountry]

A Christian group may indeed shun someone. However only Christ knows if the person being shunned is one of His or not.

I certainly hope you are above judging and shunning someone over telling an embarrassing truth, which seems to be the “offense” of this brother.

[Sloth]

I certainly hope you are above judging and shunning someone over telling an embarrassing truth, which seems to be the “offense” of this brother.

Sure, but presumably the ones doing the shunning don't believe it's the truth.

[colorcountry]

Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying "holy kiss," as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul's instruction did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded.

As far as I can tell, this man Lamborn committed no sin. Pray tell, what is his sin?

[Rameumptom]

Actually, contrary to MSNBC (Yes - its just shocking, shocking, I tell you that liberal pieces get it wrong again) depending on the nature of the case public confession or public acknowledgement isn't "rare".

In one ward I was in a member of the Stake High Council got busted committing Fraud at his business. Due to the public nature of his position part of his repentance process was to publicly apologize and confess over the pulpit to the various wards in the Stake.

[Rameumptom]

>>>I didn’t know that Mormons were in denial about Joseph Smith having multiple wives. It’s a fact their own historical records support, as this gentleman said. Apparently, it’s not something they acknowledge openly, however.

Contrary to popular myth most Mormons are not in "denial" about Joseph Smith's wives. During the last half of the 18th century one of the main contentions between the RLDS church and the LDS church was whether Jospeh Smith was a polygamist. The RLDS church claimed he was not while the LDS quite openly did and poublished as much in their newspapers. My favorite book about Joseph Smith "Rough Stone Rolling" dicussed the matter in great detail.

Sure, some modern Mormons aren't as knowledgable about their history but, contrary to the assumption on your part it's not part of a big coverup conspiracy. Unfortunately many Americans in general are not knowledgable about their own history. Its not just a phenomenon that affects some mormons but many Americans as well.

How many Americans even understand that it was Democrats who opposed Civil Rights? And that was just 40 years ago and involved most Americans, not 175 years ago involving a few thousand people at the time.

[MHGinTN]

Mormons don’t deny Smith took more than forty wives, they just demand that we suspend credulity and believe the Mormonism assertion that there was no sex with any but Emma, and this because more than ten of Joe’s wives were still married to other men at the time Joe took them for his own. Admitting he was a polygamist is one thing, admitting he was an adulterous scoundrel is too much to try and excuse. Denial is a big game with Mormonism. I expect as the truth regarding the fabricated ‘translation’ of the Egyptian funerary document claimed to be the Book of Abraham is revealed, Momronism will shift their defense to claim Joe was given a revelation not found in the actual letters but something God wanted in Mormon scriptures, kind of the way he created the extra hundreds of words and verses in the Bible with his ‘better translation’ of the King James edition! Bwahahaha ... what a game, what a scam!

[Rameumptom]

>>>I think I’ll read “Under the Banner of Heaven” again. Great read, and it’s been a while.

"Under the Banner of Heaven" is trash from a liberal secular agnostic wha has no training in "history". It is so bad that Ann Coulter specifically targets it in her book "Godless, The Church of Liberalism". The author among other things blames "Christian Fundamentalists" for terrorism and as resposibile for 9/11. So is he lying about that part or just about the Mormons?

In her book “Godless: The Church of Liberalism” Pages 16-17 Ann Coulter writes “In the book Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, Jon Krakauer wrotes of the Bush administration, “This, after all, is a country led by a born-again Christian.... who characterizes international relations as a biblical clash between forces of good and evil. The highest officer in the land, Attorney General John Ashcroft, is a dyed-in-the-wool follower of a fundamentalist Christian sect- The Pentecostal Assemblies of God of America... and subscribes to a vividly apocalyptic worldview that has much in common with key millenarian beliefs held by the Lafferty brothers and the residents of Colorado City”.

The book was highly praised on the Daily Kos' "Literature for Kossacks" list.

Church Response to Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven

[Rameumptom]

>>they just demand that we suspend credulity and believe the Mormonism assertion that there was no sex with any but Emma

Plural marriage From Wikipedia,

Joseph Smith, Jr. and polygamy From Wikipedia,

Sealing vs Marriage

There is a subtle difference between 'sealing' (which is a priesthood ordinance that binds individuals together in the eternities), and 'marriage' (a social tradition in which the man and woman agree to be husband and wife in this life). In those early days of this religion, common practices and doctrines were not yet well-defined. It is speculated that many, if not all, of the arrangements between Smith and these women were more in alignment with the concept of sealings, not marriages, in the sense that Smith did not join with any of these women, except for Emma, in a family unit.

Early Christians on plural marriage

Tertullian, Justin Martyr, Augustine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy

Martin Luther - "I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter." (De Wette II, 459, ibid., pp. 329-330.)

about 20 articles on the Book of Abraham

Book of Abraham online

[MHGinTN]

Bwahahahaha ... thanks for that hearty laugh. You folks are so predictable ... rush in to defend your peepstone false prophet at any cost, deny he was a lecherous adulterer, and post some obscure missive that tries in vane to defend Smith’s fabrication called the Book of Abraham. Priceless timing.

[tantiboh]

~”...when the folks in my neighborhood, or folks I meet up with during my daily round, start talking about politics, and the different candidates, rarely is the fact the Romney is a Mormon even brought up...”~

I agree with you. As a matter of anecdotal evidence, I’ve not discussed Romney’s religion outside of FR, with the exception of family members. Since I am LDS, I’ve been quite attuned to it. It just isn’t there.