Posted on 09/23/2007 1:53:20 PM PDT by monkapotamus
But that prayer, although it’s in the BCP, was written by a Catholic — fellow named Newman. You have heard of him, surely.
The Anglican Use Rite is based on the old prayer book, probably 1662, NOT the 1979 abomination. The translation of the Eucharistic Prayer is Coverdale's rendering of the original Latin.
To call Coverdale and Cranmer "tin-eared" is just silly.
I am absolutely certain of this, because I've got the DVD of the Anglican Use as celebrated at Our Lady of Walsingham, and I was an Anglican layman for the first 40-odd years of my life. My parents were in the Cathedral choir, so I was at 2 services a day with the '28 BCP until I went off to college in the 70s. Then I wound up in a choir myself for 25 years or so, so I have got both the old and the new services pretty much committed to memory.
The AUR could use some minor adjustments, since it was put together pretty quickly, but I think you're letting your spleen at the Catholic church get in the way of the facts.
Pain inflicted? The only pain involved is self-inflicted by those who cannot bring themselves to let us worship as we believe.
Don’t get me wrong. If I think we have issues, it is not our liturgy with which I find fault, only our execution. We’re a relatively new parish, and I am becoming more and more impressed by the length of time and effort it takes to make good liturgy look seamless and effortless.
For a pretty strong and well argued, albeit opinionated, view of the other side, check out Hillaire Belloc’s “How the Reformation Happened”. It’s one of those books that those on all side of the argument need to be acquainted with, and “Old Thunder” is a master of conservative rhetoric!
Well, certainly not a traditional Anglican layman -- they're not much interested in traditional RC input! ;-)
Now, if you were one of those modernist, Wicca-sympathizing loons, . . .
I'd be a bit more generous to the man if I didn't know his track record. He recently charged one congregation of about 500 members a $2 million fee when they wanted to depart from the ECUSA. http://www.episcopalchurch.org/81803_90100_ENG_HTM.htm
That’s realy, really, creepy.
That's Rite I of the Anglican Use, which is what most (all?) AU parishes use, and is what's on the DVD. But there's also Rite II, which from a cursory inspection looks just like the ICEL Novus Ordo (thus also the the 79 BCP abomination). I think they threw that in there because they didn't want to preclude the possibility that more "modern" Episcopalian parishes could swim the Tiber.
I don't think many AU folks are all that happy with Rite II (who can blame them). I think that is what sionnsar is talking about.
But it sounds like a makeweight to me. I've never heard of anyone using it (and WHY would anybody use it, if it's just like the ordinary Catholic version?).
Besides -- it can just be ignored the way "Rite I" is ignored in almost every ECUSA parish.
There are probably some differences...I'm not well versed in the various editions of the BCP to pick those out, maybe I can take a look when I get home tonight. I went looking for the text online but couldn't find it...which shows how well it is regarded! ;)
Besides -- it can just be ignored the way "Rite I" is ignored in almost every ECUSA parish.
Exactly.
Thank you for that. I had a spiritual experience at that shrine long before I became a Catholic, and I started feeling like I was having one yesterday, and then they said that prayer, and I just started buzzing all over. Mom had been sick for such a long time and it was such difficult work, and the recognition of that in the prayer was enormously moving.
It looks like they've just emerged from the bushes after a bit of furtive rumpy-pumpy.
lol
I’ver had many a tear in my own eyes observing many start-up attempts to master the liturgy. It’s not for the faint of heart or those lacking a sense of humor and humility!
If someone were to post the “rite I” version of AU here, we could have a “layman’s” (and “laywoman’s”) on line collaborative workshop (just for fun.)
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I know what you mean.
Ah, you surely do know that I know who Newman is. I don’t have time to check right this moment since I’m just doing a drive-by check of FR for any messages, but, when did Newman write this prayer? Was he still an Anglican or after he became a RC?
Really, sionnsar, that was a very uncharitable post! Have you ever even looked at the “Book of Divine Worship” or seen an Anglican Use Mass? Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio has a DVD of the Mass (which you can order) and it is quite Roman Catholic and traditional Anglican! Bells, smells, ad orientem priest, Elizabethan English (Rite I), and beautiful Anglican music. The Roman Canon (words of Consecration) in Rite I comes from the Latin Mass in use in England at the time Cranmer was messing it up. I have looked at it and compared it to the TLM, and they are quite similar. I don’t know where you are getting your information - just because you don’t like the 1979 BCP is no reason to say such ugly things about Anglican Use. For us former Episcopalians, Anglican Use is a great gift from Our Lord. To be able to sing the old hymns, hear the glorious music, say the words of the prayers, and know that we have Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament because the priests are valid Catholic priests, is an awesome consolation. The only problem with Anglican use parishes is that there aren’t enough of them!
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