Systematic Theology and Catholic Converts

Alpha and Omega Ministries ^ | 09/16/2007 | James Swan

[Ottofire]

I've been reading Van Til's An Introduction To Systematic Theology. Van Til notes systematic theology seeks to offer an ordered presentation of what the Bible teaches about God. He says "the study of systematic theology will help men to preach theologically. It will help to make men proclaim the whole counsel of God. Many ministers never touch the greater part of the wealth of the revelation of God to man contained in Scripture. But systematics helps ministers to preach the whole counsel of God, and thus to make God central in their work."

Here was the point that I found most interesting: "It is but natural to expect that, if the church is strong because its ministry understands and preaches the whole counsel of God, then the church will be able to protect itself best against false teaching of every sort. Non-indoctrinated Christians will easily fall prey to the peddlers of Russellism, spiritualism and all of the other fifty-seven varieties of heresies with which our country abounds. One-text Christians simply have no weapons of defense against these people. They may be able to quote many Scripture texts which speak, for instance, of eternal punishment, but the Russellite will be able to quote texts which, by the sound of them and taken individually, seem to teach annihilation. The net result is, at best, a loss of spiritual power because of loss of conviction. Many times, such one-text Christians themselves fall prey to the seducers voice."

Of course, I had the converts to Roman Catholicism in mind, rather than Russellites. I wonder how many of these Catholic converts actually attended churches that proclaimed the whole council of God? A question I would ask is how many Catholic converts previously went to churches with strong systematic confessions of faith, like the Westminster Confession, and how often were they taught the confession, like in a Sunday School class, and how well did their minister cover all the doctrines in the confession of faith? I would expect some rather weak answers. Van Til states, "We have already indicated that the best apologetic defense will invariably be made by him who knows the system of truth of Scripture best." I would modify this a bit and make it a negative: "the best converts to false gospels will invariably be made by those who knows the system of truth of Scripture least."

[jacero10]

It should also be noted that all the 30 or so alternate prayers were derivative of the Roman rite. There has only ever been one Western rite and that comes from the Roman church. So Trent saw the suppression of versions of a rite, not the suppression of independent ancient rites. The East has a number of such ancient rites all still in use. I know there are about 22 eastern rite catholic churches but I am less certain how many rites those cover, perhaps 3 or 4?

[MEGoody]

How a professor personally feels is irrelevant.

So a Catholic college isn't really interested in promoting Catholic beliefs as truth, but just teaches the 'book' stuff. That doesn't seem any different from a secular school.

I guess that's what could account for the difference between how Catholic and Protestant colleges might treat converts. After all, if you aren't really teaching your faiths' doctrines as truth, anyone could handle the job. But if you are teaching those doctrines as truth, it doesn't make sense that someone who does not embrace those beliefs would even WANT to work there. (They could work at a Catholic college. ;)

[jacero10]

A good education is about learning critical thinking as well as learning material. Sounds like you are talking more about indoctrination than education. This explains why there are no evangelical schools highly ranked in the US. This either/or black/white thinking is strangely adolescent to my mind. It also explains why Protestant schools either rise academically and lose their religious nature or retain their religious nature but flounder academically. Notre Dame is trying to be the first university in the US that is faithful religiously while being a high ranking institution. It is a difficult balance to strike, but Notre Dame is up to the challenge.

[jacero10]

I can see that you all are playing the typical protestant game. It goes like this: whatever the Catholic says, insist that he is wrong, the Church is wrong, immoral, stupid or what have you. And, whatever you do, never concede anything. If the Catholic makes a decent point just change the subject. Keep shifting the subject, etc. etc.

This is a highly disingenuous game. But I will play it, because after years of living with protestants, I can defend myself or find resources to do so. The truth is the Protestantism is born of disobedience and a rebellious spirit and it is aimed at tearing down every form of authority. TEC is a logical outcome of the Reformation.
The rebellion has come home to roost and has now turned against scripture, tradition, morality and even the centrality of Christ as necessary for salvation. You all may not be theological liberals but likely your next generation will be. Sola scriptura and the individual interpretation of scripture is the root of all religious and secular relativism.

[Greg F]

This explains why there are no evangelical schools highly ranked in the US.

_________________

Most of the Ivy League schools were started by protestant ministers, many of the schools specifiically to train ministers. Harvard — Puritans. Yale — Congregationalists. Etc.

[Greg F]

How do you explain the “leftwing” of the Catholic church Jacero? You seem to seek to alienate almost everyone you come in contact with. I’m glad you have chosen to speak to Christians rather than putting off every non-Christian you come in contact with — but for Christ’s sake learn to persuade instead of anger, and step down from the high place that you’ve appointed yourself to so we don’t strain ourselves as we contemplate your lofty and holy position!

[jacero10]

Most of the Ivy League schools were started by protestant ministers, many of the schools specifiically to train ministers. Harvard — Puritans. Yale — Congregationalists. Etc. You have made my point. None of them has maintained their religious identity.

[jacero10]

How do you explain the “leftwing” of the Catholic church Jacero? You seem to seek to alienate almost everyone you come in contact with. I’m glad you have chosen to speak to Christians rather than putting off every non-Christian you come in contact with — but for Christ’s sake learn to persuade instead of anger, and step down from the high place that you’ve appointed yourself to so we don’t strain ourselves as we contemplate your lofty and holy position! I was raised a liberal Catholic by a feminist mother. My father was an old style Conggregationalist then became an evangelical Episcopalian. He is now just and evangelical non-denom. Liberalism led me to hate the Church of my baptism and I went searching. I was with the evangelical wing of TEC for some years. But their theology was intellectually unsatisfying and they were constantly bickering between liberal, evangelical and catholic theologies. In time I saw that they each just made up their favorite blend of the mish-mash. Searching for the truth among TEC's was desperate. I tried evangelicalism straight up like my dad, but found too much gloating over Catholicism. Through some more level headed friends I found the church fathers. Then Scott Hahn and others helped me find my way back home and to get over my rebeliousness. Sure, I am angry still. I am angry at Catholics who sell out their faith for secularism and liberalism. I am angry at Protestants for either being liberal or anti-Catholic or both. I have not met many who didnt relish a cheap shot at the Catholic Church--and I guess I give too much back of what I have received. I know I should tone it down but it is infuriating how badly the Catholic Church is treated by gays, liberals, evangelicals, you name it. A Catholic in the marketplace has no allies. But perhaps this is a further sign of the Church which will always be rejected.

[Greg F]

Well, remember that not all non-Catholics are Episcopalian. I’m sure that the Episcopal church is breaking the heart of many good Christians within their denomination. I think that the Catholic Church’s College of Cardinal’s system, where the Pope appoints the Cardinals, and the Cardinals elect the Pope does set up a sort of stable, good emperor system in the Church. I also believe that with John Paul II and Ratzinger, the Catholic Church currently is in a very positive cycle with good Popes. The problem with the system is that when it goes off the rails, as it did in the late middle ages with the corrupt Popes, it stays off the rails for centuries.

I also believe that there is the gradual accretion of theology over the centuries that changes the nature of the Catholic Church since the traditions of the Church are looked to instead of the Bible . . . and the Papal system creates an insular, self-selecting ruling elite within the church . . . an example of this accretion and how it changes the nature of the gospel is papal infallibility, where a respect for a Godly bishop and necessary administrative control became financial and temporal power, became pomp and ceremony, became abasement, became declared infallibility for the Pope.

The protestant diversity means that their is a great deal of corruption/false doctrine/and the like always present in various denominations and among the individual preachers, but it is constant . . . reform is not as difficult among Protestants as it is among Catholics, and I believe the full truth is there as well for the individual Christian who associates with the Godly around him and carefully scours scripture to guide him. I also believe that given the few infallible pronouncements made by the Pope (and the inability to even agree on which decrees are infallible and which are not) that the intelligent Catholic faces the same issues of lack of doctrinal clarity and possibility of error.

There is a difference in views of salvation as well. The Catholic does have a sense of corporate salvation, salvation through the offices of the Church, baptism, eucharist, confession, while the Protestant almost invariably sees salvation as individual and solely based upon a relationship with God. So for the Protestant the purity and unassailable perfection of the church is not as all important as it is for the Catholic.

But I don’t pretend Catholics are stupid and don’t think you should pretend Protestants are! The drift of Harvard from its Puritan roots is no different than the drift of Georgetown from its Catholic roots. Protestant and Catholic both share the problem of the secular society destroying the institutions founded by the churches.

[MEGoody]

A good education is about learning critical thinking as well as learning material.

Yes.

Sounds like you are talking more about indoctrination than education.

Generally, people choose to attend a Protestant college because they share the belief system that is taught at the college. That doesn't mean that, for example, Buddhism isn't taught. It just means it isn't taught as a truth. It sounds to me as though at a Catholic college, the statement is made, "This is what Buddhists believe" and nothing is stated indicating that isn't what Catholics believe. In other words, a Catholic college is no different from a secular school.

This explains why there are no evangelical schools highly ranked in the US.

True. . .academia doesn't like it when the truth of Christ is spoken. They prefer 'liberalism' and an anything goes (except Christianity) philosophy of teaching. Frankly, if Catholic schools are ranked highly based on those worldly standards, that's not a good thing.

This either/or black/white thinking is strangely adolescent to my mind.

Then I guess Jesus was strangely adolescent in your mind, because He was quite clear that there is black and white regarding spiritual truths.

Notre Dame is trying to be the first university in the US that is faithful religiously while being a high ranking institution.

Good luck to them, but didn't appear to be what you were saying Catholic schools do. In fact, you seemed pretty adamant that teaching doctrine as truth is 'strangely adolescent.' One can only assume that if Notre Dame does manage to become faithful religiously, you will be calling them 'strangely adolescent'.

[jacero10]

Thanks for the fair treatment.