We All Praise the Tree that should be Worshipped.

Anastasis ^ | 9th Century | Joseph the Hymnographer

[PAR35]

You either worship the Creator or the created. If you worship created objects, you are guilty of idolatry. The headline is indefensible.

[jacero10]

You either worship the Creator or the created. If you worship created objects, you are guilty of idolatry. The headline is indefensible. Since when have you actually know an Orthodox Christian to actually worship an object? This is poetic hyperbole. Protties if anything worship personalities pastor celebrities. I used to like the preaching of Joyce Meyers until she became a deity herself. Now she spends so much time talking about how she deserves all the money she has. This is a poor substitute for the Gospel, but those mindless Protty sheep keep forking over millions to their goddess...not to mention Olsteen. These are far greater obstacles to the worship of the Creator than a technically misplaced use of the word, "worship." But then, Protties spend all their time gloating over the speck in their neighbor's eye while the tree trunk the size of Joyce Meyers has taken up residence in thier own eyes. False righteousness is a first class ticket to perdition, my friend.

[Kolokotronis]

“You either worship the Creator or the created. If you worship created objects, you are guilty of idolatry. The headline is indefensible.”

PAR35, most people around here for any length of time understand that Orthodox Christians only worship our Triune God; we venerate all sorts of objects for reasons which have been expressed multiple times here on FR. Your argument is a strawman.

The fact of the matter is that the particular word used here in the Greek text can be translated as either worship or venerate. Venerate would have a been a better English word for the translator to use, but he, being a Greek monk, likely didn’t think the use of the word “worship” would cause such a problem to American protestants. I suspect he’d say, as several of us have relative to Marian Devotions, that the veneration of icons, objects and/or saints and angelic powers really isn’t for protestants, at least not for most of them.

Next time I’ll be sure to post Orthodox prayers and hymns as Orthodox/Catholic caucus threads.

[PAR35]

If you want to read how our leaders live, and how we defend them, click here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1896676/posts

[redgolum]

In that on the feast of the Holy Cross, we take some time to remember Jesus’s sacrifice on the Cross for us.

The cross itself isn’t God, but God died on the cross for us. He suffered the most humiliating death and dishonor for your and my sins.

[Salvation]

St. Francis' Prayer Before the Crucifix

Most High
glorious God,
enlighten the darkness
of my heart.
Give me
right faith,
sure hope
and perfect charity.
Fill me with understanding
and knowledge
that I may fulfill
your command.

Exaltation of the Glorious Cross - September 14

We All Praise the Tree that should be Worshipped -- Feast of the Elevation of the Most Holy and Life-Giving Cross

Exultation/Triumph of the Holy Cross

The Elevation of the Venerable and Life-Giving Cross

The Feast of the Holy Cross (Fr. Elfeghali's report)

Catholic, Crusader, Leper and King: The Life of Baldwin IV and the Triumph of the Cross

HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON THE FEAST OF THE TRIUMPH OF THE HOLY CROSS

Orthodox Feast of The Universal Exaltation of the Precious and Life-Giving Cross, September 14

Triumph of the Cross - September 14th

Feast of The Exaltation of The Holy Cross - September 14

[jacero10]

If you want to read how our leaders live, and how we defend them, click here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1896676/posts PAR35. I am a Catholic happily refugeed from TEC. So, I know all too well how the leaders of the various ecclesial communities live. Catholic priests typically earn under 15K plus housing and meals. Prot leaders can earn up to 100K or even much much more like Joyce Meyers or Tammi Faye Baker or Olsteen, or Oral Roberts, or Schuller etc. etc. They are into celebrity and fame. There are over 40,000 priests in the US and almost none are famous nor rich. They may not always be the best preachers but they pour out their lives in tireless service to their parishes. Catholic priests give up marriage and family for the sake of total dedication to God and parish. Prot clergy have the highest divorce rate after truck drivers. I will take our Catholic priests over the swindlers and heretics (TEC) any day.

[jacero10]

Next time I’ll be sure to post Orthodox prayers and hymns as Orthodox/Catholic caucus threads. Good move. BTW, the canon of the Holy Cross was movingly beautiful and much appreciated. Thank you. See you on the Catholic/Orthodox caucus.

[Flo Nightengale]

You obviously have some "issues" regarding Protestants, but I'll skip over those. What I will say is that if you think the average Protestant minister makes $100K or more per year, you are seriously mistaken. I'll give you an anecdotal example first. The minister in the Methodist church I attended while living in rural Tennessee made $22K per year. For that whopping salary, he served the three different churches within our circuit. He attended every service and preached a sermon at all three churches every Sunday. Add in all the other duties of a pastor, and you had a very busy man. But he was pretty lucky, because our circuit had a 2-bedroom parsonage where he, his wife, and their three young children lived. If he was getting rich, he sure was doing it in a strange way!

Now I'd like to relate some data from a study done by Duke Univ. in 2003:

The median salary, including housing (which isn't always provided), for Protestant pastors serving small churches was $36,000 in connectional churches and $22,300 in congregational churches. Salaries varied according to the size and location of the churches, with larger, urban churches paying more than their smaller, more rural counterparts. In addition, only 30 percent of small congregational churches provided retirement and health benefits for their pastors, compared to 80 percent of small connectional churches. Remember, too, that Protestant ministers normally have wives and children to support.

Catholic priests are generally paid less than Protestant clergy, according to the study, but those lower salaries were offset by the provision of other benefits, including health care, retirement and theological education. Of course, Catholic priests do not have wives and children to support. The range of salaries was much narrower for Catholic clergy. The median salary paid to Catholic priests varied only slightly regardless of the parish size, the survey showed. Median salaries for priests ranged from $20,883 for those serving small parishes up to $26,633 for those serving the largest parishes.

[PAR35]

I am a Catholic

So you don't really have a dog in this fight? You are just using this thread to vent your hatred of protestants?

[jacero10]

Catholic priests are generally paid less than Protestant clergy, according to the study, but those lower salaries were offset by the provision of other benefits, including health care, retirement and theological education. Of course, Catholic priests do not have wives and children to support. The range of salaries was much narrower for Catholic clergy. The median salary paid to Catholic priests varied only slightly regardless of the parish size, the survey showed. Median salaries for priests ranged from $20,883 for those serving small parishes up to $26,633 for those serving the largest parishes. Your "Duke study" is clearly bogus. Catholic priests are not paid by parish size. They are not even paid by title (pastors and associate pastors are paid the same). In each diocese every parish priest is paid exactly the same. In my diocese in northern Indiana, the priest salary is just 13,000 a year. In addition he has a two room suite and bath in the rectory and meal provided. He pays for his car and the diocese pays his insurance. He and the diocese split his retirement savings. He also pays taxes. Our priests have about 500 a month to spend on themselves when all is said and done. Catholic priests are paid according to church teaching the living wage. That is enough for the essentials plus a little more for entertainment. It is a frugal existence. If the "Duke study" does not reflect the way priests are actually paid, it really has no credibility. As for being a Catholic, yes I have dog in this race. While the Orthodox can often be as chilly toward Catholics as any Protty, any attack on their theology or practice is an attack on Catholicism as well. As you must know by now, Catholics regard the Orthodox as brothers in the Church. Protties on the other hand are not technically member of the Church but are ecclesial communities and quite defective.

[jacero10]

I see that you have avoided addressing the heresies and apostasies now rampant in protestant churches. Gay marriage is a heresy. Pro abortion is a heresy. Teaching that Christ is not necessary for salvation is an apostasy. All the major liberal denominations (denominationalism is also heretical because it implies a religious relativism) are now falling into these errors and thus jeopardizing the salvation of their members.

You also avoided the serious problem of divorced and worse, divorced and remarried clergy.

Maybe you take this all very lightly. But the Catholic Church doesnt. Protestant relativism and casual theology are major contibutors to the dissolution of Western civilization.

[Flo Nightengale]

you have avoided addressing the heresies and apostasies now rampant in protestant churches. Well, since that wasn't the subject of my post, I didn't talk about those things. I was just calling you out on your obviously false accusation re: the salaries of Protestant ministers.

You said the Duke study was obviously "bogus", since Catholic priests don't get paid according to parish size. Well, if you'd actually read what I posted, you would have noted that it said exactly that: median salaries of priests "varied only slightly regardless of the parish size."

Another survey recently completed by the National Association of Church Business Administration found similar findings to the Duke study. The average pastor in the Catholic church has a taxable income of $31,465. They also noted that most Catholic priests have no family for which to provide, usually have their room, board and pension covered by their parish, have their seminary training costs covered by the diocese and are compensated for continuing education. For most Protestant pastors, those expenses come out of salaries.

Frankly, I don't get your bitterness and hostility towards a fellow believer in Christ. Maybe you should ask God to help you with that.

[jacero10]

Perhaps it is the constant anti-Catholicism of the protestants I have known in Virginia and Indiana that has influenced my mood. The attack on this most beautiful post is a case in point. The implication that we and the Orthodox worship objects is just so completely and obviously false, yet it comes up again and again and again. Anti-Catholic hatred is a form of bigotry every bit as much as antisemitism and racism. No wonder the epicenter of these bigotries is geographically located in the same region of the country.