Posted on 09/10/2007 12:16:21 PM PDT by NYer
The 52-year-old husband, father and former Episcopal priest weighs it every day as he considers ordination to the Catholic priesthood after leaving a church he felt was in turmoil.
The little-known Pastoral Provision of the Catholic Church, approved by Pope John Paul II in 1980, permits former male Episcopal priests, even married men with children, to pursue two sets of vows - marriage and priesthood.
The pope granted the provision at the request of breakaway Episcopalians troubled by a 1976 decision to ordain women.
In the past 27 years, more than 80 Episcopal ministers in the United States have left their church and been ordained Catholic priests.
To any Catholic clergy who might be envious of his permission to be a married priest, Webb says don't be.
"It's a burden to carry around two vocations in life," Webb said.
Even as a married Protestant minister, Webb said one is always robbing time from one vocation for the sake of the other.
The Catholic Church terms celibacy "a gift of an undivided heart."
Yet celibacy was not mandatory for Latin Rite Catholic priests until the 12th century, and it isn't required of Eastern Rite priests if they're married before ordination.
A recent study by Catholic University in Washington estimated that making celibacy optional likely would quad ruple the number of priests.
The church says, however that the Pastoral Provision for Episcopalians is not a move in that direction.
"It is clear in everyone's mind that this is not a proving ground for optional celibacy in the Catholic Church," said the Rev. William Stetson on the Pastoral Provision website.
"In fact, the special challenges of a married clergy ... show the value of the norm of celibacy for the sake of the kingdom in the Western Church," Stetson said.
Webb said he decided to leave the Episcopal Church about three years ago after 16 years as a clergyman primarily because the church was tearing itself apart over changes in doctrine.
Over the past two decades, Webb watched members break away from Episcopal parishes to form new congregations, some becoming missions of conservative Anglican dioceses in Africa, over issues such as the blessing of gay unions and ordination of women and an openly gay bishop.
"It was an ugly fight. Relationships got fractured," Webb said. "I just came to believe that if Christ founded a church, you wouldn't be forced to leave it."
For Protestant churches, the only solution to conflict is to split apart, he says. His years in the Episcopal Church were "rich and good," but he has come to deplore schism.
"The Catholic Church has a clearer understanding of what it means to be one holy and apostolic church," he says.
Webb has done many of the things required by the Catholic Church to pursue ordination - including petitioning the church, obtaining Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput's permission, studying theology for a year and passing written and oral tests.
He has not made a final decision about entering the priesthood.
"I need to be ready spiritually," Webb says. "The care of souls is an intimidating responsibility."
Webb says he knows his wife, Cindy, "thinks it would be kind of weird to be married to a Catholic priest." Still, she makes it clear she supports him. He also thinks 17-year-old son Sterling trusts his judgment.
"When it happens, if it happens, I'll deal with it," Cindy Webb says. "God is always full of surprises. I've been a clergyman's wife in the past. What would it be like in the Catholic Church? I don't know."
She breaks into good-natured laughter. "There aren't a lot of people to ask," she says.
The Pastoral Provision does not give blanket approval to petitioners. A Catholic bishop examines each individual case.
And, these crossover priests, if widowed, may not remarry.
"There's no easy divorce from vows in the Catholic Church, whether you're married or taken a vow of chastity," Phil Webb says.
Although the Pastoral Provision is specific for former Episcopalians, the Catholic Church has permitted ordination of other former Protestant male ministers who are married. Additional seminary studies are required of them.
Beyond the marriage questions, the difference between an Episcopalian priest and a Catholic priest, so the quip goes, is about $20,000 a year.
Catholic diocesan priests generally earn smaller salaries, yet average Catholic parishes often have congregations of 1,000 while the average Episcopal parish is about 200.
Few clerical converts ordained to the Catholic priesthood work as pastors of parishes. Most work in other ministries, such as serving as hospital chaplains. None of it is lucrative work.
"It almost necessitates that you have a wife with a career," Webb says. Cindy Webb is a real estate agent. But he still worries about providing enough for his family.
Webb took a job a year ago in the Archdiocese of Denver's Marriage and Family Life office. He counsels engaged couples.
He says he'd like to keep his current position but recognizes that entering the priesthood would mean additional duties, perhaps even a new post.
Cindy Webb says if Phil chooses the priesthood, "God will work out the details."
She was raised Catholic and converted to the Episcopal Church for Phil after they married.
"I felt our family should all be together in one place," Cindy Webb says. "Phil and I have not been on the same timetable. We've had to kind of wait for each other."
I was somewhat incorrect, it was Pope Leo XIII who issued a letter in 1986 stating that Anglican orders, from the Catholic theological position, are not valid.
Pax Domine
Ok, I will get this corrrect, It was Pope Leo XIII and the letter was in fact 1896.
Sorry about my goof ups.
Pax Domine
Fleeing a church that was imploding in itself.
Not quite right but not quite wrong. The Bull Apostolicae Curae indeed was issued by H.H. Leo XIII in 1896 and held that Anglican orders had been invalid since the change in the words of consecration of bishops instituted by King Edward VI (or, more properly, his radical protestant advisors, since he was 9 or so at the time and had no opinion other than what he was told.)
However, there were talks in the works in the late 60s for a concordat, along the lines of what was being discussed with the Lutherans, including (rumor had it) a revisiting of Apostolicae Curae. But the ordination of women stopped that in its tracks, and the Bishop of New Hampster killed it stone cold dead.
“A recent study by Catholic University in Washington estimated that making celibacy optional likely would quad ruple the number of priests. “
to put it bluntly, this is total BS!!!!!!!!!
the number of heretics and bad priests would quadrouple and good priests would leave.
He just wants to get into some new habits.
I reckon the deciding factor would be if liberal bishops were allowed to keep doing what they are doing. If the discipline of celibacy was relaxed, it could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on what the mitred ones are allowed to get away with in their areas.
Freegards
Sorry, my Catholic history isn’t that good. All I remember was reading something about it.
“Every validly consecrated bishop, including heretical, schismatic, simonistic or excommunicated bishops, can validly dispense the Sacrament of Order, provided that he has the requisite intention, and follows the essential external rite (set. Certa). Cf. D 855, 860; CIC 2372.” 1952 Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott, pp. 456.
Maybe that was what I was thinking of.
The difference, of course, is that the Anglican bishops during the reign of Edward VI were never properly consecrated, due to the alteration in the words. The radical protestant regents, believing in "every man his own priest," removed from the words any indication that the bishop or priest received any special powers via the Holy Spirit. Since that intention was allied to the removal of the necessary words, the effect was to invalidate the consecrations.
But that's pretty complicated and technical. I actually read Apostolicae Curae because of course I was interested in the question. That (the validity of Anglican orders) was one of the two beliefs I had to consciously give up in becoming Catholic. The other was the supremacy of the Pope. But, as my husband told our new rector, it was obvious from the way events had played out that we had been grievously in error! As he so elegantly put it, "We can deal!"
I should say... my Pastor (and his twin brother) are converts. They were Anglican priests from Australia for 25 years and now they’ve been Roman Catholic for 20. They look so cute when they’re standing in the Sanctuary together. They’re turning 70 this week. Really quite a fascinating story, those two. I think they’ve both done considerable time in the chaplain corps. If I have the story right, Father Bruce was the pastor, or vicar, if that’s the right term, when the parish was started in the 1980s, left, and now has been reappointed.
Father that we had before was married, I believe. He seems like a fine man... in his sixties now, probably pushing seventy.
Did it seem odd to you when you came in that people actually called the priests Father? I mean, in the Episcopal church their title was Father, and sometimes during a service or other ecclesial event I would call them Father Henry, or Father Sam. But when I was rehearsing for my confirmation, the lady in charge started saying “Father will cross here, and when he comes up to you say such and such, it made me feel funny. At first it creeped me out, but now I like it. It feels like a healthy submission to my elder.
I assert that the number of priests would increase TENFOLD if the Church would only allow: women priests, homosexual priests, contraception, abortion, divorce and remarriage, optional Mass on Sundays, no Holy Days of Obligation, rejection of the perpetual virginity of Mary, elimination of the Papacy and what ever else you think might be most pleasing to the ‘Masses.’
I assert that the number of priests would increase TENFOLD if the Church would only allow: women priests, homosexual priests, contraception, abortion, divorce and remarriage, optional Mass on Sundays, no Holy Days of Obligation, rejection of the perpetual virginity of Mary, elimination of the Papacy and what ever else you think might be most pleasing to the ‘Masses.’
It honors the office, not just the man.
Well, then you’d just have Episcopalians, and we already HAVE a buncha those!
I wonder why Catholic University even bothered with this study since the Vatican recently reaffirmed its requirement of mandatory clerical celibacy, which means that celibacy will not be made “optional” any time in the foreseeable future. The study is nothing but useless speculation and wishful thinking.
I guess we’ve all learned not to trust survey findings such as these without being able to review the study itself.
It seems to me that a man torn between being a Roman Catholic priest or having a wife and family would instead find a home in one of the Byzantine or Eastern Rite Catholic Churches in union with Rome where he could marry prior to ordination.
I seem to recall a spate of women's magazine articles -- maybe 20 or 30 years ago -- about the difficulties and stresses faced by ministers' wives -- little money, demands on their time and energy for church work and parish visitation and such, hypercritical attention to their children's behavior, etc.
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