Posted on 08/27/2007 7:56:33 PM PDT by Terriergal
Well since he SAYS they do, I guess that settles it!
Do you walk the talk?
Then I guess you don’t need the gospel. The gospel is for sinners, those of us who realize we don’t do what we want to do, and the things we don’t want to do, ‘that I do.’ Who will deliver *me* from this body of death? I haven’t gotten the answer from any Rick Warren messages I’ve heard. From him I’ve heard it’s ME that has to do it using his little ‘tools’ where he cuts up and processes Scripture like baloney (using any ‘translation’ that suits his fancy at the time) and expects us to not know the difference. Sadly, many don’t.
I tried. I really did. But it seems to be in just about every church around here. "You will be assimilated... resistance is futile..."
My choice to ignore Rev Warren is this:
His continual sale of his own salesmanship - as if the Word is not enough - as if he has some special gift of christian marketing that I missed when I read through the gifts of the Spirit.
I hear ya. But be sure and warn the rest of your church not to listen to him either, or else it seems almost inevitable that they fall for it and you end up having to make a most unpleasant decision... to leave or stay and try and correct the error.
I’m a little confused by your implication though that because he is seeking to ‘polish the cart’ he is not seeking to preach the Word.
Part of our responsibility as followers of Christ is ‘to live such good lives among the pagans that , though they accuse you (us) of doing wrong, they see your (our) good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us.’(1Peter 2:12)
We are Christ’s ambassadors, and as such need to keep our cart ‘polished’... not so that we look good, but so that we represent our Father in a dignified manner. My cart may be simple, but I will keep it looking it’s best.
It would seem by the number of people that have come to Christ through Warren that he is preaching the Word adequately. The honor and glory though, belong to God and His Word, and not to Warren.
I don’t think the man is a monster, like many here. He has a different way of presenting things than most but who can say with any real knowledge that God’s not in it? I like to hear more people preach on sin and hell myself and don’t even hear it much in my own church since the senior pastor retired, but I know the basics. Once you know the basics, you need to move on into ministry and using the gifts God has given you. Lots of churches do NOT provide that. I’m not saying I agree with everything Rick Warren espouses, but I don’t agree with a LOT of things that go on in church, work, FR, anywhere. That’s my right, I guess.
Yes it is. To go a bit further, JESUS could do the same and they’d complain about him, too.
I’m fine with honest and loving critique of any person, including myself. What saddens me is when people who wear the name of Christ cast stones unjustly, or try to slander others. We are to 'put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his (our) neighbor(s), for we are all members of one body.' (Eph 4:24)
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. (Eph 4:29-32)
(Marysecretary wrote:) I like to hear more people preach on sin and hell myself
I think many churches are afraid of 'offending' people with unpleasant aspects of scripture. The thinking seems to go that people don't 'like' to hear about sin or hell, so we should avoid the subject. Yet we are told that friendship with the world is hatred towards God' (James 4:4).
We need the full message of God delivered, and not just a portion of it. Without knowledge of our absolute sinfulness and the rightious judgement of God, the gospel fails to be Good News.
God himself forbids us to criticize a brother/sister in the Lord. Most criticism is not honest and loving, sadly. I don’t have any problem with someone telling me to my face that what I’m doing isn’t pleasing to the Lord, but it’s not good for Christians to constantly criticize another brother who is in the ministry. If they don’t like what he does, go to him or write to him personally. Warren isn’t my cup of tea but we did do a small group in the church at our home and it was fine.
I rebuke such diatribes in the Name of Jesus.
As was clear in the article . . . he’s way ahead of a lot of churches on focusing in practical terms on moving people toward becoming more Christ-like.
Evidently that’s hard to find in some naysayer’s Bibles.
I believe it’s in Hebrews, perhaps the ninth chapter? Check it. I’m on my way to dialysis so I don’t have time to look it up. Mxxx (We can speak face to face with a brother or sister who is sinning in the church, but not talk about them behind their backs.)
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