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To: narses

Not that I see, but the traditions might suggest something like that. I mean, if Irenaeus said that Jesus died as a 50 year old man, and the Apostles taught that, who knows what can be dug up.

But the scriptures give the same ‘full of grace’ to Stephen at his death. And using the RCC interpretation of that phrase...

Of course, (I know, here comes the old anti-Catholic chesnut, still unanswered here) Luke makes certain truth claims at the beginning of his gospel which would put RCC and Orthodox tradition on its ear. What does Luke mean when he writes:

Luke 1:3it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus;4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.(NASB), or perhaps you prefer from the online Catholic bible (http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=42)

3I in my turn, after carefully going over the whole story from the beginning, have decided to write an ordered account for you, Theophilus,
4so that your Excellency may learn how well founded the teaching is that you have received.

So, in his ordered account, to show his Excellency, Theophilus the well founded traditions that he was taught, Luke accidently skipped the whole Marion de fide Catholic doctrines? Boy, Luke needs to get somebody else to write for him...Poor Theophilus had to wait for someone to orally teach him, as Luke cannot seem to put such important de fide info into his inspired book.

Of course I always have heard some LIBERAL Catholics say that tradition is like “an acorn, that grows into a oak”. But that makes it seem that the traditions are somewhat new, and don’t go back 2000 years.

I know, I know, I am just an anti-Catholic, and my arguments can just be dismissed. Ignore the truth, and say that I am just being ‘Wrathful’ ‘Hateful’ and ‘spitting venom at the Holy Virgin Mother and Her Church’...

I will sit down and shut up.


21 posted on 08/24/2007 7:19:31 PM PDT by Ottofire (O great God of highest heaven, Glorify Your Name through me)
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To: Ottofire

You may have an abridged version of the Bible. Perhaps a Protestant one?

Never fear, the online NAB has Luke 1:

26
10 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,
27
to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28
And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
29
But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.
30
Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
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Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
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He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
33
and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
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But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” 12
35
And the angel said to her in reply, “The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
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And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived 13 a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;
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for nothing will be impossible for God.”
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Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her.
39
During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,
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where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.
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When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
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cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
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And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me?
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For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
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Blessed are you who believed 15 that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
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And Mary said: 16 “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
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my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
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For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
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The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
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His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
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He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
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He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
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The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
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He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
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according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
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Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home.
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17 When the time arrived for Elizabeth to have her child she gave birth to a son.
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Her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had shown his great mercy toward her, and they rejoiced with her.
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18 When they came on the eighth day to circumcise the child, they were going to call him Zechariah after his father,
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but his mother said in reply, “No. He will be called John.”
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But they answered her, “There is no one among your relatives who has this name.”
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So they made signs, asking his father what he wished him to be called.
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He asked for a tablet and wrote, “John is his name,” and all were amazed.
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Immediately his mouth was opened, his tongue freed, and he spoke blessing God.
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Then fear came upon all their neighbors, and all these matters were discussed throughout the hill country of Judea.
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All who heard these things took them to heart, saying, “What, then, will this child be?” For surely the hand of the Lord was with him.
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Then Zechariah his father, filled with the holy Spirit, prophesied, saying:
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19 “Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has visited and brought redemption to his people.
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20 He has raised up a horn for our salvation within the house of David his servant,
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even as he promised through the mouth of his holy prophets from of old:
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salvation from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us,
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to show mercy to our fathers and to be mindful of his holy covenant
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and of the oath he swore to Abraham our father, and to grant us that,
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rescued from the hand of enemies, without fear we might worship him
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in holiness and righteousness before him all our days.
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And you, child, will be called prophet of the Most High, for you will go before the Lord 21 to prepare his ways,
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to give his people knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
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because of the tender mercy of our God by which the daybreak from on high 22 will visit us
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to shine on those who sit in darkness and death’s shadow, to guide our feet into the path of peace.”
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The child grew and became strong in spirit, and he was in the desert until the day of his manifestation to Israel.


Sorry, Otto. You might wish to listen and learn.


26 posted on 08/24/2007 7:35:20 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: Ottofire
But the scriptures give the same ‘full of grace’ to Stephen at his death.
Nope, not 'the same'. There has only ever been ONE Mother of God. Only one.
27 posted on 08/24/2007 7:37:58 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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