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To: ArrogantBustard

>>Getting the heck away from Tom “Xenu” Cruise strikes me as a very sensible thing to do ...<<

Oh yeah.

But divorce, as I understand it is not Catholic.

Maybe she got annulment on the grounds of deception or his lack of sanity.


7 posted on 08/20/2007 1:17:02 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: gondramB
IIRC, She and Xenu had a "scientology wedding" ... being as she's a baptized Catholic (from her childhood), any ceremony, other than an actual Catholic sacramental marriage is invalid for her. The declaration of nullity would be pretty much pro forma. Then, of course, there's the question of mental stability ...
8 posted on 08/20/2007 1:20:29 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: gondramB

btw... you can get a divorce without incurring any penalty in the Catholic Church. It isn’t until you want to remarry that there’s a bit of a problem.


18 posted on 08/20/2007 1:51:43 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Liberals read Karl Marx. Conservatives UNDERSTAND Karl Marx." Ronald Reagan)
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To: gondramB

Having read ahead in this thread, I see that you are confused about Catholic marriage laws and how Nicole Kidman’s situation fits into them. The law is actually pretty straightforward, so let me try to piece it together for you. I’ll try to do this logically, starting with the norm and working my way out from there.

Most often (ie: “normally”), a Catholic will marry another Catholic in a Catholic ceremony. Unless force or fraud or the like has been employed by one or both parties, the marriage is, of course, valid in the eyes of the Church. It is also a Sacrament.

Sometimes a Catholic will marry a non-Catholic Christian. In order to do this validly in the eyes of the Church, the Catholic will have to get a “dispensation from cult” from the bishop in order to marry the non-Catholic. If the ceremony is to take place in a non-Catholic church, a dispensation from proper form will also need to be obtained from the bishop. These dispensations are given rather routinely these days, though, in the past, they were much less common. A marriage between a Catholic and non-Catholic Christian with the proper dispensation is considered both valid and sacramental, assuming the non-Catholic is baptized. If the non-Catholic party is not a baptized Christian, then, with the dispensation noted above, the marriage is still valid, but it it is not sacramental. It is considered to be a “natural marriage.”

In all other circumstances of marriage involving a Catholic, whether the other party is Catholic or not, the marriage is considered to be invalid by the Church. This includes marriage without the aforementioned dispensations, marriage in front of a JP, etc. If, later on, the Catholic party has civilly divorced in this scenario, an annulment based on defect of form can be granted, since, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, no valid marriage ever took place.

Having said all this, things are a bit different when neither party is Catholic. If two baptized non-Catholics marry, the Church recognizes their marriage as both valid and sacramental. This is so because, being both baptized, the parties have the power to confer the sacrament to each other (whether they realize this or believe this is immaterial to the Church’s stance here), yet, since they are not Catholic, they are not subject to the Church’s marriage laws. The Church presumes all marriages under these circumstances are valid, and will not give a decree of nullity for them unless the same criteria as Catholics would have are met (fraud, force, too close blood relationship, insanity at the time of the wedding, concealed impotence known about before the wedding, a pact or understanding that “marriage is only temporary” or “we will absolutely never consider having children”). Of course, a refusal of a decree of nullity would mean nothing to non-Catholics, unless at some point one of the parties converts and wants to marry someone in the Church. It could become an issue then.

If two non-Christians marry, they are presumed by the Church to be in a valid, natural marriage. This marriage can never be broken unless one of them converts at a later point, and the other party will not let them live in peace. This exception is called the Pauline Privilege, and is based on 1 Corinthians 7:12-15. In the case of two non-Chriatians where one converts and the other accepts this, the Pauline Privilege does not apply.

In the case of Nicole Kidman, it is easy to see how she got an annulment of her Scientology marriace to Tom Cruise. She, a Catholic, married Cruise in a ceremony outside of the Church AND not officially witnessed (presided over) by a Catholic deacon, priest or bishop. By definition, this marriage was not recognized by the Church, and when she married someone else a couple of years ago, having first obtained a declaration of nullity for the Cruise marriage, she was able to have a Church ceremony. Should she divorce again (a common enough Hollywood problem!) she will have a much harder time getting a Church wedding the third go-round, I’m quite sure!

The marriage laws of the Catholic Church are really pretty simple, I stated them at length above to be clear on a few points. But, basically the summary is as follows:

1) Two Catholics must marry in the Church with no concealed or agreed to impediments (force, fraud, etc. as above).

2) A Catholic may marry a non-Catholic with a dispensation from the bishop, and may marry at the non-Catholic’s venue with dispensation as well. No other circumstances of place or celebrant will be recognized.

3) Catholics cannot divorce and subsequently remarry for any reason if the first marriage was sacramental. They can do so in unsual circumstances such as apply to the Pauline Privilege (where the marriage started out between two non-Christians anyway), but that’s about it.

4) The Catholic Church recognizes the sacramental nature of marriages contracted between two non-Catholic Christians, and their marriages are considered sacramental. The same restrictions on divorce and remarriage apply to them, and any party subsequently converting to the Catholic Church will need to take that into account.

5) Non-Christian marriages are presumed to be valid, natural marriages. When one party subequently converts and cannot be allowed to live in peace as a Christian by the other, then divorce and remarriage is allowed under St. Paul’s teaching as found in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15.

Them’s the basics!


61 posted on 08/21/2007 7:42:15 AM PDT by magisterium
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