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To: Ping-Pong; Uncle Chip
The "horses" turn to chariots before this book ends and that makes them men of war.

Huh?? I don’t know what you are talking about.

I think to not see what God means would be unsound.

This is called begging the question. What God means is the very thing in question. You have not proved from Scripture that you know what God means. The plain literal meaning is that horses mean horses, not F-16s.

What words would you have used to describe weapons of war that will happen at the end of days?

Again, your faulty presupposition is that this passage is talking about events far in the future, when technology is running wild. I do not subscribe to that theory. And it is not required from the text alone. Some folks have adopted that theory based on their own presuppositions about "end times".

"But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, ..." (Acts 2:16,17)

"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18)

35 posted on 08/06/2007 12:41:55 PM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip
Some folks have adopted that theory based on their own presuppositions about "end times".

And some folks have a theory, based on scant, taken out of context scripture, that we have experienced end times and are in the millennium - go figure.

You have not proved from Scripture that you know what God means. The plain literal meaning is that horses mean horses, not F-16s.

Let's clear up the "F-16's" first. You are being much too literal. I mean machines of war "like", F-16's, tanks, helicopters, whatever - just machines of war in place of horses and chariots of war.

Zech.6:1 And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass
Unless you think these mountains are literal brass you will understand that they are nations.

2.In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
3.And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
4.Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, "What are these, my lord?"
5.And the angel answered and said unto me, 'These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

Notice the horses were "in" the chariots, not pulling them. They aren't horses. The angel then tells us that they are the "four spirits". Whenever the 4 spirits are mentioned they always have to do with the end of this age. Rev.7, Daniel 7, Ezekiel 37.

You gave this scripture and I'm not sure why. Perhaps to make it fit your idea that we're in the millennium. "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18)

Top Cat to fully understand that you must start at vs. 17:

17.And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Now read vs. 18 and you understand that John is speaking about the end of our age. The world hasn't "passeth away" yet. That is the "last hour" when anti-christ comes.

"But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, ..." (Acts 2:16,17)

I don't know why you posted that scripture. What does it have to do with what we are discussing? Do you think that has already taken place? Do you think the anti-christ has already come and gone?

41 posted on 08/06/2007 4:28:44 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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