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To: NYer

NYer: “Christ’s sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation.”

Thanks for the explanation; I was not aware of the distinction between redemption and salvation. It then sounds like the Roman Catholic teaching is that redemption is God’s work (through Christ) and salvation is each individual Christian’s work.

The following is probably my favorite Biblical passage of all:

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

In these verses, I see no contingency on the actions of God’s children (those whom he foreknew) to secure glorification. All I see is predestined->called->justified(redeemed)->glorified(saved).

In other words, once God initiates, can we legitimately defy his will? Can we thwart the divine plan of God as identified in His Holy Scriptures?

If it is up to me to secure salvation, I am hopelessly lost! For I (like Paul) am the chief of sinners...

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
Rom 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.


18 posted on 07/29/2007 3:05:32 PM PDT by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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To: visually_augmented
Thanks for the explanation; I was not aware of the distinction between redemption and salvation. It then sounds like the Roman Catholic teaching is that redemption is God’s work (through Christ) and salvation is each individual Christian’s work.

You are more than welcome! By Christ's blood, we are saved but we can lose that salvation if we don't keep our eye focused on our eternal reward and work towards it.

This morning my pastor read the Gospel of Matthew on storing up our treasures in heaven. In his excellent homily, he spoke about how Jesus used parables to teach. Jesus told his disciples that not everyone would understand his parables. To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God; but for others they are in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear (Luke 8:10). Did Jesus mean to say that he was deliberately confusing his listeners? Very likely not. Jesus was speaking from experience. He was aware that some who heard his parables refused to understand them. It was not that they could not intellectually understand them, but rather, their hearts were closed to what Jesus was saying. They had already made up their minds to not believe. God can only reveal the secrets of his kingdom to the humble and trusting person who acknowledges the need for God and for his truth. The parables of Jesus will enlighten us if we approach them with an open mind and heart, ready to let them challenge us. If we approach them with the conviction that we already know the answer, then we, too, may look but not see, listen but not hear or understand.

In essence, Jesus knew his audience. He also knew that most of them were illiterate but could appreciate a good story and would understand the parallels drawn. Even today, though many of these parables were addressed to the peoples of that time, using examples common in the middle east, we too can gain great insight. For example:

19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light; 23 but if your eye is not sound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
Matthew 6:19-23

In our illumined world of the 21st century, we can still grasp this Gospel from St. Matthew. If anything, it is especially more relative today than ever before, for those of us blessed to live in the United States. Our children are fed a constant stream of messages via television, the internet and radio that success hinges on how much they possess. How many teens are driven to own the fastest or coolest car, and dream of one day owning a large house. For them, these are the markers of success. But none of this will ever come with us when we die. There are no U-Hauls following the hearse to the cemetery. So how do we accumulate these treasures in heaven? Through our works on earth. (Mother Teresa immediately springs to mind). It's one thing to have faith and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior but if we do nothing with that gift, then we too are lost. Each day we must witness to our faith through our actions. The more we give, the more we receive. It's such a simple premise but oftentimes lost on so many.

19 posted on 07/29/2007 5:28:41 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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