Posted on 07/27/2007 11:23:09 AM PDT by NYer
“Is the candidate worthy?” intoned Bishop Patricia Fresen ceremonially, as lifelong Catholic Juanita Cordero stood before her in a pure white gown, about to be ordained as a priest. The question was asked three times during the ordination ceremony on Sunday, July 22, as one female priest and two female deacons were invested with the power to perform sacraments — a function forbidden to women under canon law. They are part of a movement from within the Roman Catholic Church that has been ordaining female priests since 2002, though those involved say that the tradition of women priests and bishops dates as far back as Mary Magdalene, whom they consider an apostle of Jesus. The participants in this movement fervently hope to be embraced by the Vatican, as other splinter groups have been before them.
Sunday’s ordination, witnessed by more than 100 invited guests, took place at an interfaith center in Santa Barbara that reporters agreed not to name in exchange for an invitation to attend. (Reporters also agreed not to print the names or orders of the nuns in attendance.) The women ordained Sunday join 18 others in North America who belong to an international organization called Roman Catholic Women Priests, which counts among its number approximately 50 female priests and deacons worldwide, including a few whose identities remain undisclosed in an effort to protect their jobs within the church. Also secret are the identities of the male bishops who ordained Bishop Fresen. Film and documentary evidence of that ceremony is being kept by a notary public, not to be released until the deaths of the male bishops.
At least two Santa Barbara women are studying to be ordained, perhaps as early as next year. Besides their gender deviating from the Catholic priest norm, neither the priest nor the two deacons ordained on Sunday — who are scheduled for re-ordination as priests on July 28 — is celibate. Norma Coon, of San Diego, has been married for 40 years. Toni Tortorilla, of Portland, lives with her lesbian partner. Cordero, a newly anointed priest who lives in San Luis Obispo, is a former nun who has been married for 30 years to a former Jesuit priest.
The ceremony, which took place on the feast day of Mary Magdalene, also differed from the standard Catholic ordination in the names the presiding clergy used for God, who is ordinarily referred to as “the Father.” The female priests instead referred to “Mother and Father” and to “God/de.” (The latter is pronounced like “God,” with the silent, extra letters hinting at a goddess that those in the ceremony declined to refer to explicitly.) Jesus Christ retained his masculine identity, however.
The reason that the women are determined to remain Roman Catholics, instead of forming their own church or joining another — such as the Episcopal Church, which ordains female clergy — is that they consider the Roman Catholic Church to be their family, albeit a dysfunctional one, and they have no intention of abandoning it. “It’s in my bones,” said Fresen. “It’s in my blood. There are a lot of things wrong within the church, but I love it, and the only way to change it is to stay.” They added that excommunication, contrary to popular belief, does not remove one from the church; it only means that one cannot receive the sacraments. “Nothing can put you out of the church once you have been baptized,” said Fresen. However, after the first seven women priests ordained on the Danube in 2002 were promptly excommunicated, none of the other ordained females has been excommunicated.
“The meaningfulness of the Catholic tradition to me is the long history of mysticism in the church,” said priest Victoria Rue, who also teaches theology and theater at San Jose State University. She finds particular inspiration in the women mystics of the Middle Ages. “Priesthood,” added Rue, “is about leadership within the community.” There are many types of ministries to which people are called, she said, concluding, “I feel called to the ministry of the liturgy,” which she described as communal worship.
They certainly do feed off each other, and maybe it is just a series of stunts to get publicity.
Having dealt with some of them (who are sympathetic to this “cause”) though - there are some who really think this is the “spirit moving”.
And for a buch of people who consider themselves smarter, and have the certification in theology to “prove” it...how dumb can they be?
They despise the pope - but they claim to be priests,and priest must necessarily pledge obedience to the pope.
And yet they become “priests” in ceremonies specifically forbidden by the pope.
dumb, dumb, dumb.
They don’t LIKE the Pope right here and right now. It’s scary.
“They don’t LIKE the Pope right here and right now. It’s scary.”
that’s what kills me.
The priesthood is necessarily a position that answers to the pope.
But they can’t stand the pope.
Why would they want to be called “Roman” catholic given their hostility towards Rome?
AD.......she had “produced” a mass......boy, was I MAD. I stood in our church lambasting the youth minister about the “homily” that day......he checked into it and said it was AD’s doing.........I couldn’t believe it. Good thing she was due to be gone in days. I must have spent 20 minutes on my “critique” that day. I was NOT backing down. Last I heard of her she was divorced and following her lesbian daughter to CA. Good riddance. I think she had a job with a church out there. Can’t quite remember, but I think that’s right.
It was no accident Jesus was born of woman. We can fight nature all we want, but women bear the children. It’s the natural course of things. Man’s role is one of supporting that. Why give up a good thing? I love being a wife and mother. Nothing ever has beat that for me.
yes...California - perfect for her.
Some catholic freepers here have said the Rochester problem was around even when Sheen was bishop.
I wonder what the “root” of this problem is - I’m sure it has alot to do with what goes on at St. Bernard’s.
Have you ever read the courier journal columns by our bishop? Never saw anything more useless in that paper.
I remember a visit by the bishop, we were encouraged to go hear him discuss “how to be a Catholic in today’s world”.....he had NOTHING to say, he asked US how WE do it. I walked out of there that night wondering how he can lead when he has nothing to offer on the subject. Couldn’t beleive it.
I asked once WHY he never has mass when he comes.....it’s only a prayer meeting or a “talk”.........Perhaps if he offered mass with us he would KNOW what to say. It’s like he comes to visit, but he leaves Jesus home. Sad.
“Have you ever read the courier journal columns by our bishop? Never saw anything more useless in that paper.”
I used to try, but found it so ....blah.
I used to think “is there a point here?” and re-read -and still not find a point.
Just...blah blah blah.
“I remember a visit by the bishop, we were encouraged to go hear him discuss “how to be a Catholic in today’s world”.....”
I think my ‘rents were there.
If I remember correctly, their reaction was the same as yours.
Yes, I can imagine there are lots of instances where an honest, but less mature, person might not be sure if he was sinning. Therefore, it "might" actually be possible that for the exact same act, it might be a mortal sin for one, but not for the other. I usually use John Kerry as my official whipping boy on the issue we are talking about, so I doubt he is unaware of the official Catholic position on abortion. :)
Condemn wrongful acts, certainly, but I've always found it more salutary to worry about my own spiritual state than to draw conclusions about that of others -- my own opinion, anyway!
Fair enough. But when it comes to liberals, sometimes I just can't help myself. I hope that's not a sin! :)
Hey, I'm from MA -- you can't be any more appalled by Kerry than I am! Of course, he's clearly delusional (actually, I really think he is!).
Rail about his behavior all you want! :)
That's OK... and I'm King of the United States.
Same here in Albany. It's scary because it tells you the mindset of local area "Catholics" mirrors that of their bishop, IOW, it's a reflection of 30 years of brainwashing.
Not long ago, I happened to mention Mother Angelica's name at a K of C meeting of the women's auxiliary. One of the women asked "Who?" I repeated Mother's name, followed by EWTN - the Catholic television channel. "Oh ... that kook!", was her reaction, "never liked her."
Of course she never liked her because, unlike our respective bishops, Mother is outspoken when it comes to the orthodox Catholic teaching of the Magisterium. Her words burn themselves into one's conscience.
Here's something to ponder. When my pastor decided to move the congregation to a larger church, he began by contacting the Diocesan Office responsible for closed properties. They never responded. He then went looking on his own and eventually purchased a 160 y/o boarded up Methodist/Episcopal Church. Though in good condition, the stained glass windows need to be repaired, along with several aspects of the old building, before it can be converted into a Catholic Church.
The other day, I was selling raffle tickets for one of our fundraisers intended to raise monies to match the grant we were awarded by the state, for that purpose. Anticipating that folks would want to know where the money was going, I brought along a picture of fhe Church + the history on its State Landmark status. One of the summer interns, a college senior, kept staring at the picture. Curious, I asked her why. She said it looked so much like the Church her father had just purchased in downtown Albany. She then told me her father was selling the stained glass windows. Now, even more curious, I inquired as to which property this was. "Our Lady of the Angels", she replied.
Here is a beautiful, old Catholic Church that the diocese sold to a non-denomination Pentecostal minister! I inquired about the contents of the Church and she explained that her father had moved them into the basement. We exchanged phone numbers - I gave her the name of my pastor and she gave me the name and cell phone of her father. Last night I called and spoke with one of the deacons. I asked about the stuff in the basement, specifically whether or not it included a Baptismal font (which we desperately need for the future church). The deacon said it had been removed before they purchased the property. The 'stuff' in the basement includes some banners ... /sigh/. So I called my pastor. He was not at all surprised. He said the diocese has set up a warehouse for the contents of the closed parishes. This merchandise will eventually be sold.
Now I ask you ... does it not seem unfair to have a Catholic priest be turned away from a property but okay to sell it to a Pentecostal minister? And what about all those items accumulated in the warehouse. Here is a Catholic parish in need of so many religious items, especially a baptismal font. As Catholics, should they not offer these items to those parishes in need before selling them off to the highest bidder? What's wrong with this picture?
How did you find out specifically where it was? Just curious, since the news stories were pretty careful not to let it slip.
Are they one of the groups who went off the rails after a Carl Rogers-type — I don’t know quite the word to use — therapy? Intervention?
It was posted with much detail on “The Cafeteria Is Closed”
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