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Locked on 08/03/2007 6:34:01 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Poor behavior |
Posted on 07/26/2007 5:03:33 PM PDT by tantiboh
Democratic political consultant Mark Mellman has a very good piece up today at The Hill on the baffling and illegitimate opposition among voters to Mitt Romney due to his religion. I liked his closing paragraphs:
In July of 1958, 24 percent of respondents told Gallup they would not vote for a Catholic for president, almost identical to Gallup’s reading on Mormons today. Two years later, John F. Kennedy became the first Catholic to assume the oath of office. Within eight months, the number refusing to vote for a Catholic was cut almost in half.
[snip]
Mellman also discusses an interesting poll he helped construct, in which the pollsters asked half of their respondents whether they would support a candidate with certain characteristics, and asked the other half about another candidate with the exact same characteristics, with one difference. The first candidate was Baptist, the second candidate was Mormon. The Baptist had a huge advantage over the Mormon candidate, by about 20 points.
[snip]
However, more recent polls have attempted to fix the anonymity problem. A recent Time Magazine poll (read the original report here), for example, got to the heart of the question by asking respondents if they are less likely to vote for Mitt Romney specifically because he is a Mormon. The result is not as bad as some reporting on the poll has suggested. For example, while 30% of Republicans say they are less likely to vote for Romney because of his religion, fully 15% of other Republicans say that characteristic makes them more likely to vote for him. And while many have reported the finding that 23% of Republicans are “worried” by Romney’s Mormonism, the more important (but less-reported) number is that 73% say they hold no such reservations...
(Excerpt) Read more at romneyexperience.com ...
~”Just wait: more ‘truth’ is coming soon.”~
You betcha.
~”Wow! can you put any of this into plain English?”~
Would you rather I dumbed it down? I use the correct words to express the meaning I intend to convey. It’s called “language.” I have faith that the people around me are just as smart. It’s not a really high bar to meet.
~”I would like to know HOW it is that ONLY you mormons actually have the inside track as to just what is valid and true and the rest of us have to go through all this reasearch and HTM posting for nothing just to have you call it lies?”~
Easy. Moroni 10:3-5.
~”It is SO, because WE say it is SO!”~
Do you still not understand? When we’re talking about LDS doctrines, it is SO because GOD says it is SO.
That is called faith. My understanding is that you are familiar with the concept.
The only difference is that you expect us to agree with you, and when we don’t, we’re assumed to be deficient.
~”To use y’all’s favorite expression, SHEESH!”~
It’s not my favorite expression. The word’s not nearly big enough.
Sigh! You are NOT voting to legitimatize Mormonism by voting to Romney. I support him but in now way does that make me think I am also supporting Mormonism somehow.
If the election were between someone like Hillary or Romney, I would vote for a third party for the first time in my life.
I hate to break it to you but we even had a couple of Unitarian presidents but the Republic remained standing.
—giggle, giggle— ... he said the ‘d’ word!
In all seriousness, though, I agree with you. I, too, am losing patience with the “here’s a quote we’re distorting to try and demonize your cherished beliefs” MO.
So, what are we to do? Repent and find more charity and patience? Be warriors for the faith and decry the tactics? Stomp our feet pedantically and be petulant?
At this point, I’m kind of leaning toward the latter.
What about an ultra religious atheist?
Mr. One-Dimensional weighs in with a deep thought. Stop the World! I wanna join the Know-Nothings!
Knowing what I said would make you a know something, not a know something-stupid.
On points of doctrine those men were not wrong, and no one was required to follow a leader who was teaching false teachings.
I know your arguments. I used to give them myself. Please spare me your denigration of the Prophets in the Bible. You might have noticed that there were consequences when these men sinned, there was repentance and then the call, or there was removal from promise. Has this happened to the Prophets of your Church.
I would say yes. If they were ever Prophets then they are fallen Prophets, and fallen prophets are always removed....just like Joseph Smith was removed.
Lol, Have read the D&C? There are numerous accounts of the Lord calling the Prophet and its leaders to repent! It is cannonized that they were human just like those events in the Old and New Testament!
Also, there is not one account in all of the Old Testament and New Testament where a Prophets claims to know all things! Sorry! The criticism being made here is also not of anything canonized so you lose on both counts!
I guess Ananias and Sapphira decided in their heart to give what they would and God loved them for giving cheerfully, right?
Imagine that! Lincoln pubicly rejected a call to confess Christ and he was still elected! Is there not a double standard!
ABRAHAM LINCOLN
Allen Guelzo, professor of American history at Eastern College in St. Davids, Pa., in a new book: “Abraham Lincoln: Redeemer President” (Eerdmans):
Religion became a hot issue in 1846 when Lincoln won a seat in the U.S. House over Democrat Peter Cartwright. The Cartwright camp spread talk of Lincoln as infidel and he responded in a handbill distributed days before the election. Guelzo thinks this was probably Lincoln’s most revealing theological statement. “That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true,” Lincoln wrote. But he denied disrespect toward religion in general or any Christian group.
Springfield pastor James Smith said Lincoln believed some form of providence was at work in the universe, but was unable to believe in a personal God or in Jesus as his savior. That amounted to Unitarianism, but Lincoln had no interest in that liberal denomination.
Lincoln never joined a church nor ever made a clear profession of standard Christian beliefs. While he read the Bible in the White House, he was not in the habit of saying grace before meals. Lincoln’s friend Jesse Fell noted that the president “seldom communicated to anyone his views” on religion, and he went on to suggest that those views were not orthodox: “on the innate depravity of man, the character and office of the great head of the Church, the Atonement, the infallibility of the written revelation, the performance of miracles, the nature and design of . . . future rewards and punishments . . . and many other subjects, he held opinions utterly at variance with what are usually taught in the church.”
The Ambiguous Religion of President Abraham Lincoln by Mark A. Noll
As Carl Sandburg recounts in Abraham Lincoln: The Prairie Years, Lincoln attended one of Cartwright’s revival meetings. At the conclusion of the service, the fiery pulpiteer called for all who intended to go to heaven to please rise. Naturally, the response was heartening. Then he called for all those who wished to go to hell to stand. Not many takers. Lincoln had responded to neither option. Cartwright closed in. “Mr. Lincoln, you have not expressed an interest in going to either heaven or hell. May I enquire as to where you do plan to go?” Lincoln replied: “I did not come here with the idea of being singled out, but since you ask, I will reply with equal candor. I intend to go to Congress.”
Some people claim that with the carnage of the Civil War, the difficulties with Mary Todd, and the death of his son, Lincoln underwent a conversion to Christianity in his later years:
John Remsburg (1848-1919), President of the American Secular Union in 1897, argued against claims of Lincoln’s conversion in his book Six Historic Americans (1906). He cites several of Lincoln’s close associates:
The man who stood nearest to President Lincoln at Washington — nearer than any clergyman or newspaper correspondent — was his private secretary, Col. John G. Nicolay. In a letter dated May 27, 1865, Colonel Nicolay says: “Mr. Lincoln did not, to my knowledge, in any way change his religious ideas, opinions, or beliefs from the time he left Springfield to the day of his death.”
His lifelong friend and executor, Judge David Davis, affirmed the same: “He had no faith in the Christian sense of the term.”
His biographer, Colonel Lamon, intimately acquainted with him in Illinois, and with him during all the years that he lived in Washington, says: “Never in all that time did he let fall from his lips or his pen an expression which remotely implied the slightest faith in Jesus as the son of God and the Savior of men.” Both Lamon and William H. Herndon published biographies of their former colleague after his assassination relating their personal recollections of him. Each denied Lincoln’s adherence to Christianity and characterized his religious beliefs as deist or skeptical.
Has anyone including any of the FR moderators answered this question since Restornu seems to be proselytizing the Mormon faith on this thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1873203/posts?page=1,50
You choose Mormonism. You failed the ultimate test.
You planning on voting for Lincoln should Oven Mitt not get the nomination? What century do you line in?
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity10.mp3
Here’s one for you off topic. You know it mostly meat stuff, forget milk! Enjoy!
Yeah!
I pinged you to an answer, read the following posts there for more.
Hi fun with these too!
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity09.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity08.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity07.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity06.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity05.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity04.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity03.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity02.mp3
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backyard_professor/files/trinity01.mp3
Spam anyone?
I said it was off topic. But hey if you are not intellectually interested then no problemo!
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