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Locked on 08/03/2007 6:34:01 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Poor behavior |
Posted on 07/26/2007 5:03:33 PM PDT by tantiboh
Democratic political consultant Mark Mellman has a very good piece up today at The Hill on the baffling and illegitimate opposition among voters to Mitt Romney due to his religion. I liked his closing paragraphs:
In July of 1958, 24 percent of respondents told Gallup they would not vote for a Catholic for president, almost identical to Gallup’s reading on Mormons today. Two years later, John F. Kennedy became the first Catholic to assume the oath of office. Within eight months, the number refusing to vote for a Catholic was cut almost in half.
[snip]
Mellman also discusses an interesting poll he helped construct, in which the pollsters asked half of their respondents whether they would support a candidate with certain characteristics, and asked the other half about another candidate with the exact same characteristics, with one difference. The first candidate was Baptist, the second candidate was Mormon. The Baptist had a huge advantage over the Mormon candidate, by about 20 points.
[snip]
However, more recent polls have attempted to fix the anonymity problem. A recent Time Magazine poll (read the original report here), for example, got to the heart of the question by asking respondents if they are less likely to vote for Mitt Romney specifically because he is a Mormon. The result is not as bad as some reporting on the poll has suggested. For example, while 30% of Republicans say they are less likely to vote for Romney because of his religion, fully 15% of other Republicans say that characteristic makes them more likely to vote for him. And while many have reported the finding that 23% of Republicans are “worried” by Romney’s Mormonism, the more important (but less-reported) number is that 73% say they hold no such reservations...
(Excerpt) Read more at romneyexperience.com ...
It does show that Mormons were just as good in the 1800’s as they are now. The horror stories of Mormons are mostly are result of this bigotry. I can share newspaper editorials which called for public executions of Mormons.
Nowadays, no one (almost) would ask for an execution, but they do call for daily the assination of their moral character and reasoning. Thankfully in a free country I can live with that hate, but it is disturbing nonetheless.
Methinks you missed the post where I said I goofed that post. Disregard, please. Last I checked, I am a fallible member of an infallible church.
There was a large box truck behind me with huge Tom Tancredo banners. 2 guys were handing out Tom Tancredo literature. Nobody was handing out info for any other candidate.
There were people in cars with small signs on one car for Rudy, one float car with a McCain bumper sticker.
There were 2 each high school aged kids (looked like anyway) carrying a few dem signs for different candidates.
Tancredoby far had the largest showing.
Personally I couldn't care less if Romney was a Mormon, Catholic, Pagan, warlock or even Souther Baptist.
I look at how a candidate stands on the issues, not his religion.
That said, he's a Massachusettes liberal, so I'll be voting for Tancredo
“Maybe...
...they want to BE Christian; not just CALLED Christian.”
I’m a Christian, even if you don’t think so. My dad, who is Catholic, often wonders how it is that we all agree that there were only three crosses on that hill, and two were occupied by thieves, so where do we get all those different Jesus Christs?
They were Mormon. They still consider the Book of Mormon scripture, they just no longer require acceptance of it for membership. Makes no sense to me.
“Of course.
Just wait: more ‘truth’ is coming soon.”
Elsie, what do you call the answer to a prayer?
Revelation is answered prayer. I can pray for guidance for my family, and do, and have received that guidance. That is why I’m in the Church, why I’m paying my tithing again after months of not doing so, and why I keep on praying. That sort of revelation has saved my life, and the lives of all of my immediate family. As a priesthood holder, I can reveal some of God’s plan for my family. Leaders of our Church do the same for the Church, appropriate to their responsibilities.
Hey, Mogger...You like Tancredo, huh?
Good for you Mogger. A reasonable position. Not my candidate, but reasonable nonetheless.
practicing a bit of hyperbole there, FRiend?
Moi?
I look at how a candidate stands on the issues, not his religion.
That said, he’s a Massachusettes liberal, so I’ll be voting for Tancredo”
A person after my own heart. Do you think Tancredo will make it past the primaries?
It's looking better all the time. I see more people here in NH supporting him and going to vote for him than any other candidate.
Some of the "Country Clubbers" I know are for a couple of "big City" candidates, but everyone else I meet that pays attention is for Tom Tancredo
Mind telling me what your particular gripe with the Church is? Feel free to FReepmail if you’d prefer. Or you can ignore me, for that matter. I’m interested, but won’t die for lack of that information. I just wonder how close it comes to my reasons for not becoming a Baptist.
Gosh, golly, gee, how did you ever get that idea?
I don't understand.
“He sounds like one of your Prophets.”
He sounds like a good many people of that day and age. Would you have a crisis of faith if some document came to light that showed beyond doubt that Peter, James and John thought the earth was flat and the sun went around it? Not me. That is what everyone believed back then. Likewise, in the 19th century men’s ideas about the conditions on other celestial bodies were wrong, and in light of modern science, silly.
I would if it was some wacky proclaimation came from my "prophet" and was recorded while they were proclaiming to be Prophet of God. It certainly would cause me to question their vision and direction.
That is probably why I'm no longer a believing Mormon. First I was told to follow the Prophet unhesitatingly, then folks like you tell me Prophets are often in error and they are just men. Cognitive dissonance?
“Noah occasionally drank wine to the point of drunkenness and unconsciousness (Genesis 9:21, 23). Abraham acquiesced in his wife’s mistreatment of his second wife (Genesis 16:6). Jacob “with subtlety” and deception obtained his brother’s blessing from his blind father Isaac (Genesis 27:12, 35), and also hated his first wife Leah (Genesis 29:30-31). Moses at the least committed manslaughter prior to his call as a prophet (Exodus 2:12-14), and after that call occasionally exhibited doubt in God’s word, fierce anger, and boastful arrogance (Exodus 4:10-14, 5:22-23, 32:19; Numbers 20:10-12). The Lord had to intervene directly to prevent Samuel from choosing the wrong man as king (1 Samuel 16:6-7). Daniel sought forgiveness for his sins while prophet (Daniel 9:20). Jonah resisted the commandment of God to him (Jonah 1:2-3, 4:1) James and John, as apostles, delighted in the thought of their opponents being destroyed (Luke 9:52-56) and pridefully sought to elevate themselves above the rest of God’s children in the eternities (Mark 10:35-38). Peter was impudent, boastful, arrogant, and cowardly as an apostle during the life of Jesus (Matthew 16:21-23, 26:69-75; John 13:8-9, 18:10-11). Despite Christ’s command to send the Gospel to all nations at His ascension (Matthew 27:19; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:47), it required another specific revelation to Peter to persuade him that the Gospel should be taken to those who were not Jews (Acts 10-11), and even years after that revelation Peter continued to demonstrate his prejudice (Galatians 2:1,9,11-14). Nor did Peter hesitate to criticize the approach of his fellow apostle Paul in teaching the Gospel (2 Peter 3:15-16); Paul likewise boasted that he had publicly condemned Peter and “withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed” (Galatians 2:11-14). Moreover, conflicts between Barnabus and Paul resulted in the disruption of their mission (Acts 13:2, 15:36-39).”
~”I a southern baptist texan in maine.”~
I bet that’s got you feeling like a lobster in a pot...
Reverend J.R. Dummelow (not LDS) described the authors of the Bible in terms that ought to be applied, in all fairness, to Joseph Smith as well:
“Though purified and ennobled by the influence of the His Holy Spirit, these men each had his own peculiarities of manner and disposition - each with his own education or want of education - each with his own way of looking at things - each influenced differently from one another by the different experiences and disciplines of his life. Their inspiration did not involve a suspension of their natural faculties; it did not make them free from earthly passion; it did not make them into machines - it left them men.
“Therefore we find their knowledge sometimes no higher than that of their contemporaries.... “(J.R. Dummelow, One Volume Bible Commentary, p. 85)
Hardly the megalomaniac portrayed in anti-Mormon literature, Joseph told members of the Church that he was but a man and that they could not expect perfection from him any more than he could expect it of them, “but if they would bear with my infirmities and the infirmities of the brethren, I would likewise bear with their infirmities” (History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 181). Latter-day Saints do not believe in infallible prophets whose every word must be true.
~”I’ve been hit in the head; too!
Perhaps THAT explains......”~
It just might...
In Rigdon’s case, he was lifted up by the heels and drug over the frozen ground in a position where he couldn’t protect his head or get it off the ground. The mob’s goal was to tar and feather him; by the time they got him to where they took him, he was unconscious. They tarred and feathered him anyway, then beat him until they thought he was dead, then left him in the mud and snow and went back for Joseph Smith.
Frankly, it was miraculous he survived at all; permanent damage after that kind of experience is sort of par for the course, I suppose.
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