No, the terms mediatrix and coredemptrix do not make God, but the use and meaning of those terms put her on the same level and with the same job as Christ Jesus. This is antithetical to everything that Jesus taught about the individual's relationship with God.
True, there are many things not found in scripture, but we must question what men say that were not close to the time and events. Especially when those things conflict with what is said in scripture, and that said in scripture is entirely sufficient to salvation.
Which council?
The group of men that make Catholic policy, doctrine and settle dogma. I understand it's called magisterium. As a Catholic, you knew that , didn't you?
There are no original texts.
What did King James use?
No. What I’m saying is that no bible existed (notwithstanding OT scripture), and that indeed, no bible is necessary to realize the truth from oral sources from the Church Christ founded.
Very interesting. Since men can say whatever they please, we have a credibility problem.
All dogma is truth, and it cannot be contrary to the Bible, since they are just 2 sources of truth, and Truth cannot be in conflict with itself. What you call apparent conflicts are due to misinterpretation or misunderstanding. That does not mean that everything that is true is contained in the Bible, even though all that’s in the Bible is true.
However, Mary is nowhere found in the teaching of Christian principles by the disciples and Paul, nor is there mention of her past the Gospels. There is no misinterpretation and misunderstanding; there is nothing to misunderstand or misinterpret. All passages about Mary are clear and unambiguous, and to interpret otherwise is to require a preconception.
You have to be more specific.
Worshiping Mary, described by kneeling before statutes thereof, praying to and calling "mediatorix" and "coredemptrix". And, praying to any human being living or dead for any reason whatsoever instead of exclusively to God.
We know from the bible itself that not all truth is there.
I disagree. Everything one needs to know to seek the kingdom of God and approach the Throne is found in the four Gospels only.
That is perhaps, the nub of the problem. Why, “according to the written word”? He said to listen to the Church, did He not?
No problem, the way to god is simple and clearly laid out int he Gospels. Jesus said to seek the kingdom of God and all else would be added to you and that the kingdom of God is within. Leaves no room for any church whatsoever other than those of believers desiring to worship together. Especially not a church that cons it followers in order to suborn them.
The pope sits on the chair of Peter.
And the kingdom of God's exists within each human being. Jesus said to seek it, in belief and faith. The pope is a con artist, nothing more, if he departs from this simple teaching one scintilla. So are any Protestant church organizations.
I don’t know if the founding fathers were perfectly correct, or not. You are making a comparison of a group of men as opposed to Christ and His chosen apostles. I guess you are saying the Faith should be a democracy?
In leaving a heir determined monarchy dependent on "royal blood"? Absolutely. the "royal blood" has simply been replaced by "royal spirit".
I'm saying that the Spirit of God, within and available to each and every human soul without outside intervention, does not respond to any attempt of man to pass It one like some aristocracy, and place a human head over it so as to determine who passes and who does not.
To assign a human gatekeeper, my friend, is patent blasphemy. You have been, and continue to be, conned. I don't believe God blesses fools.
“No, the terms mediatrix and coredemptrix do not make God, but the use and meaning of those terms put her on the same level and with the same job as Christ Jesus.”(WT)
Though you keep claiming to not be a protestant, you insist on using protestant methods to argue. No one, and I mean NO ONE (except you) have ever claimed that Mary was “...on the same level...” as Christ. Those titles likewise, do not. That’s why I told you to look up what Catholics really mean by them instead of fooling yourself about them.I also notice you make a clear distinction between "God" and "Christ Jesus." Does that mean you do not believe in the divinity of Christ?
“The group of men that make Catholic policy, doctrine and settle dogma. I understand it’s called magisterium. As a Catholic, you knew that , didn’t you?”(WT)
Yes I do know what the magisterium is, but you are changing the subject, midstream. You said a council declared Mary divine. (You said “deified”) I asked for a reference, since I know that never happened.
“What did King James use?”(WT)
He used the existing Catholic Bible. He just changed it, and I do not even know if it was “King James”
“Very interesting. Since men can say whatever they please, we have a credibility problem.”(WT)
“We” don’t have a credibility problem; you do. You are claiming that your proof must be written, but that is not what Christ said. (SAID, not wrote) You are under the impression that written word is true, but not spoken word. Well, WT, men can write lies just as simply as tell lies, or the reverse, write truth as well as speak truth. Christ wrote only one time that we know about, and you know when that was, so I won’t repeat it. But He did say to listen to His Church....the same “Simon” you claim is a con artist in other notes. And, once again, let me remind you of the conveniently forgotten fact that there was no bible (Gospels) to read until the year 399, when the pope (the “Simon” in that year) approved the canon of the Bible. The “Gospel” was (and is) the spoken Word, as Christ very clearly said. Some parts of it were written down by four of the bishops, but they were not declared true and worthy of belief (by your “Simon” the con-man)in the year 399AD. According to what I understand of your concept for finding salvation, between the years 33 and 399 AD, no one could have the possibility of being saved. Is that it?
“However, Mary is nowhere found in the teaching of Christian principles by the disciples and Paul, nor is there mention of her past the Gospels. There is no misinterpretation and misunderstanding; there is nothing to misunderstand or misinterpret. All passages about Mary are clear and unambiguous, and to interpret otherwise is to require a preconception.”(WT)
You are using slight of hand here, WT. That is another protestant method to to deny. “Teaching of Christian principles by the disciples and Paul...” were by word of mouth; spoken word. Then you say, “All passages...” Paul wrote about specific problems to specific churches or people. There is no reason why Mary should be mentioned by him. You are talking about two different things, and making a connection which does not exist, and using that to bolster your point of view. What you are saying is that you did not hear the words from Paul’s mouth with your ears, nor did you hear Christian teaching from Simon-the-con-man with your own ears, so therefor, it cannot be true. I guess that’s beyond my ability to reason with.
“Worshiping Mary, described by kneeling before statutes thereof, praying to and calling “mediatorix” and “coredemptrix”. And, praying to any human being living or dead for any reason whatsoever instead of exclusively to God.”(WT)
There you go again, WT. Just how many times in this thread have you been told that Catholics don’t worship Mary, that she is not a god or deity. I know it’s at least a 1/2 dozen times, so far. It’s very hard to take a comment seriously, when you start off with what you know is a lie. I really wish you had read the link I put up about Bulverism, so you could, perhaps, try using legitimate argumentation methods.
“I disagree. Everything one needs to know to seek the kingdom of God and approach the Throne is found in the four Gospels only.”(WT)
That is a breathtaking statement, since the Gospels themselves say that is incorrect, not to mention, the written Gospels weren’t known to be true until 399AD. Is this the theory, “sola part scriptura”? Even Christ referred His listeners to OT scripture. I suppose when you make your own church, with it’s own dogma, that can be just as valid as any other non Catholic church.
“No problem, the way to god is simple and clearly laid out int he Gospels. Jesus said to seek the kingdom of God and all else would be added to you and that the kingdom of God is within. Leaves no room for any church whatsoever other than those of believers desiring to worship together. Especially not a church that cons it followers in order to suborn them.”(WT)
You are correct in this part: “No problem, the way to god is...” Your lower case “g” makes that statement true. It’s the thought that follow which is illogical. The “church that cons...,” is the Church that gave you the Gospels you claim to believe (with a few exceptions), so I assume you must say that, “I believe with all my heart what the Catholic Church says, concerning the Gospels,” but nothing else?
“And the kingdom of God’s exists within each human being. Jesus said to seek it, in belief and faith. The pope is a con artist, nothing more, if he departs from this simple teaching one scintilla. So are any Protestant church organizations.”(WT)
Christ departs from your teaching more than one scintilla. Does that make Him a con artist, too?
“In leaving a heir determined monarchy dependent on “royal blood”? Absolutely. the “royal blood” has simply been replaced by “royal spirit”. “(WT)
The Chosen People were guided by the blood line of Aaron. That was not only allowed, but demanded by God. Then again, you claim we need not believe anything from the OT, so I guess I can’t win this argument.
“I’m saying that the Spirit of God, within and available to each and every human soul without outside intervention, does not respond to any attempt of man to pass It one like some aristocracy, and place a human head over it so as to determine who passes and who does not.”(WT)
Well, I guess I need to make a decision whether to believe you or believe Christ. Ummmm...I think Christ.
“To assign a human gatekeeper, my friend, is patent blasphemy. You have been, and continue to be, conned. I don’t believe God blesses fools. “(WT)
I guess I’m a fool for Christ. -Glenn