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To: nanetteclaret
I have already posted that they are and always were, spiritually alive. We have the bible as the authority. Yet there is no recorded instance, aka tradition, that ever points to observant Jews worshipping the creature and not the Creator. No Jews, then or now, asked Leah, Sarah, Rachel or David's mother to intercede to God for them.

Nor was Jesus asking Moses or Elijah to intercede with God for him. The transfiguration is not related to praying to the dead. In fact, we have other scripture, from Jesus, no less, that emphasizes the futility of it.

Furthermore, you have no way of knowing where the departed soul that you "talk to" went. If they have fooled you on earth with their piety and were not sincere, or were not elect,then your prayers are not only in vain, but something worse. Maybe you are "talking to" a lost soul.

Pardon me for not understanding your doctrine, I just cannot comprehend praying directly to the Father, through His Son. This is the tradition that the bible teaches us.

166 posted on 07/24/2007 12:11:02 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.)
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To: 1000 silverlings
should be not praying directly to the Father
167 posted on 07/24/2007 12:12:02 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Nor was Jesus asking Moses or Elijah to intercede with God for him. The transfiguration is not related to praying to the dead.

Special pleading. The argument that is always made is that "talking to the dead [sic] is necromancy". If it's necromancy when I do it, it was necromancy when Jesus did it. You say the Transfiguration is "not related" because it's an inconvenient counter-example that demonstrates the falsehood of your objections.

In fact, we have other scripture, from Jesus, no less, that emphasizes the futility of it.

???

186 posted on 07/24/2007 12:37:23 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: 1000 silverlings

In the Transfiguration account, Jeus was alive and Peter, James, and John could clearly see Moses and Elijah, so we are not talking “spiritually alive” here. We are talking about Moses, whose grave was never found, and Elijah, who was taken up into heaven in a firey chariot. So were they “dead” or “alive”? Scripture tells us that Jesus was talking to them about His impending death (Luke 9:31). How do you know that He wasn’t asking them to pray for Him? He was clearly not looking forward to it, as His Agony in the Garden shows us (”His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.” Luke 22:44b).

Why are you using the argument about “it wasn’t in Jewish Tradition”? I thought Protestants didn’t put stock in “man-made traditions.” and WE DON’T WORSHIP MARY AND THE SAINTS.

Let me tell you this again and maybe I can make it clear:

We pray to the Father, in the name of Jesus, through the Holy Spirit.

We ASK the saints to PRAY for us.


190 posted on 07/24/2007 12:38:58 PM PDT by nanetteclaret (Our Lady's Hat Society)
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