Posted on 07/23/2007 3:36:15 PM PDT by annalex
I am NOT saying that you intend it as such. I'm trying to report to hyo the effect is has on me. Then I'll talk about what I think that might mean.
The effect is that a bunch of excerpts from Scripture (and thank you 1000 times for not confining yourself to Citations but giving the text) are presented as proof positive of some point. To me, since before I became a Catholic, those texts weren't ones I'd go to to make of them what I think you're trying to make of them. Now you present them, as it were, with an air of triumph, and I'm wondering HOW you think they show what you are arguing. But clearly you think they DO show it, or you wouldn't have adduced them.
But the task of articulating my questions and working through every text is, at least, daunting.
So I'm trusting YOU, personally, and saying to my self," It may seem bogus to you, but this good man means it. So chill, would you?"
But how what you offer shows that "if it isn’t in the Bible, I don’t believe it" IS in fact in the Bible utterly escapes me!
Those of us who are interested in reconciliation and increasing mutual understanding as a means thereto must pray very hard and very often. You are seeing in those texts something I don't see at all. And when we proudly haul out, say, our Pro-Mary texts and polish them on our sleeve before we hold them up for the admiration of all, you look at them and say,"Proof? you call that a Proof? My kid sister could prove better'n that when she was still in diapers!"
May God guide us through this to the further Glory of His Holy Name, sung now in beauty beyond our imagining by cherubim, and all the angels.
Idolatry repair ‘bot sent; start worshipping statues so ‘bot may home in on your tradition of men location; good luck my fellow pederast enthusiast; whore of babylon transmission over LONG LIVE THE MAN MADE CHURCH
freegards — you rock, netmilsmom
You get the post of the month award.
Tat is not accurate; the doctrine of invincible ignorance is in place and so anyone sincerely desiring to unite with the one true Church, but unable to do so due to cultural or educational limitations is judged based on the light he has been given. Of course the supernatural means of salvation are present in the Orthodox Church also, since their sacraments are valid and their church life often exemplary. At the same time, so long as a member in a Protestant congregation sincerely desires to come to Christ, the means of sanctification available to him -- the study of the Holy Scripture, -- begin to work in his favor, provided there is no effort to reject Catholicism in his spiritual journey.
True. Thank you.
Along the lines of clarified.
You are army, you understand how government works.
;-)
I am amazed and dazzled by your post.
I’m too dopey to understand all of it myself anyway.
"Instances of papal infallibility
Many non-Catholics, and even some Catholics, wrongly believe that the doctrine teaches that the Pope is infallible in everything he says. In fact, the use of papal infallibility is rare.
Catholic theologians agree that both Pope Pius IX’s 1854 definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and Pope Pius XII’s 1950 definition of the dogma of the Assumption of Mary are instances of papal infallibility, a fact which has been confirmed by the Church’s magisterium [1]. However, theologians disagree about what other documents qualify.”
So you can quote other documents, but they are still in doubt on infallibility.
“I figure that Jesus “created” about 130 gallons of good wine at Cana for His friends. I believe He wanted us to love each other and that a little “vino” (or a lot short of of the sin of gluttony) is not a bad thing.”
I think I’ve solved the gluttony debate. After much thought, the bottle of sherry sold for $160,000 versus a bottle of 2BuckChuck tips the gluttony scale for me.
On the other hand, I could be biased since I think sherry has to be the most vile spirit ever invented and a tool of the dark side...along with other sticky icky booze, rum excluded.
Creme de Menthe, now there’s a glutton’s drink. Vile stuff!
John 10:4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
It is the Holy Spirit that makes this possible. A new Christian may not know much but he can discern his Masters voice in what is being taught. If it were not the Holy Spirit's guidance, how else could this verse work?
This whole question is disingenuous and sarcastic.
What you mentioned are the lesser. "Blessed are those who believe and have not seen".
That's interesting. How do you detect an air of triumph? Is it because you asked the question and I answered. To me the whole bible screems sola scriptura from cover to cover. I hadn't even got started. When I read the Word I hear Him. This is part of the faith that I was given at my second birth. This is why I answer the question of "where does the bible say sola scriptura" with "Why would anyone believe anything the bible says?". The two questions are the same question.
You might want to read the entire bull for the context of this, the conclusion.
The purpose of the bull is to ensure that entire Christianity knows that there is to be one Church, not many. The preface states:
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: ‘One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,’ and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5].
One, not many. The One formed by God, not the many formed by men.
With my air of triumph detector available now at Radio Shack for $19.95 (The model that works costs more.)
To me the whole bible screems sola scriptura from cover to cover.
We all screem for ice creem.
I think you're attributing to me more contentiousness than I feel or intend. I think there is an APPARENT contradiction. I think that is interesting and, in general, that it is in the assessment of such APPARENT contradictions that friends grow closer to one another and to the truth.
The preemptive declaration that ONE pole is right and the other wrong, or the insistence without conversation that a text MUST mean what it MIGHT (on its face) mean and the refusal to go over the whole mess patiently just makes enmity and goes no where I care to go.
what in the "Bible alone" tells you how to heirarchise (is that a word?) these? I don't see our Lord saying to those in the upper room, "Those who believe and have not seen are more blessed (or less blessed) than others." I'm open to further info on this.
John 20:
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!”
27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Did you forget this verse?
The bible never says “let scripture interpret scripture” but it does it by example. It’s a great rule.
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