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To: Kolokotronis
Easy answer, Old R. I (and all other Orthodox) believe the exact same things our people have believed for the past near 2000 years (or however long it has been since our people gave up paganism) and which is what “The Church Always and Everywhere has Believed”.

Easy task for you. I'll repeat my question:

"I am still at a loss as to how you justify Perpetual Virginity, Bodily Assumption of Mary, and the Trinity."

Prove it using "near 2000 year old" writings.

You might need some help from the "Latins" in defining what is meant by “The Church Always and Everywhere has Believed”. They are good at that sort of thing.

9,964 posted on 10/27/2007 10:38:03 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: OLD REGGIE; kosta50; NYer; jo kus

“”I am still at a loss as to how you justify Perpetual Virginity, Bodily Assumption of Mary, and the Trinity.”

The first two are accounted for in the Protoevangelium of James which is early 2nd century. As for the Trinity, well, how about Matthew 28:19 “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”? There’s more in the NT and there are types of the Trinity in the OT. Old enough for you?

I must tell you, however, that the guarantee to me that The Church has it right on Perpetual Virginity, The Assumption and the Trinity is quite frankly the uninterrupted witness of my own family for at least 1800 years. From generation to generation we have believed the same things as they have been passed down to us within the family and within the liturgical community of The Church where we have worshiped God in a virtually identical way for those 1800 years. Lex orandi, lex credendi, Old R. I sincerely doubt that you can understand what it is to know, thoroughly and in every fiber of the body, every single Sunday, that I am worshiping our Triune God with the “Right Praise”, in an Orthodox manner, and for all intents and purposes in the same manner and in the same words as the Liturgy was celebrated in Jerusalem and Antioch and Athens and Corinth and Rome in the years after the Resurrection. And its not just me, Old R. Kosta shares the same religious and familial experience. NYer hears the words of the consecration in the very language Christ spoke them in at Maronite Liturgies. The Latins here witness the continuing, nearly 2000 year old Roman Rite of the Divine Liturgy. That’s my assurance. I know what The Church always and everywhere has believed.

This is the Faith of the Apostles,
this is the Faith of the Fathers,
this is the Faith of the Orthodox,
this is the Faith which has established the Universe.


9,969 posted on 10/27/2007 1:13:57 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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