No, friendship is not in this. We are not friends with God. We are His slaves, remember? His tools. Is your hammer or cordless drill your friend? Do you talk to them "face to face?"
I didn't write the verse, I just reported it accurately. :) The point here is obviously not to establish a "friendship". Instead, it's a simile. Verse 20 in Ex. 33 is clear that no one can "see" God and live. Yet, a few verses earlier we are told that God and Moses spoke "face to face". Is the solution to this dilemma to declare the OT wrong, or is it to interpret the passages so that they are both right? I choose the latter.
The issue was also of seeing God and not living or living. When God appeared as a burning bush did Moses stare at it? It was still God. Did people die when they looked at Jesus' face? Did they not look at the face of God?
Sure, there is obviously some manifestation of God that is not for humans to see while on earth. I don't know how it works, only that it does. This just isn't a big deal. The OT is not defeated with this argument.
There is an awful lot of rationalization involved to make the biblical verses explain themselves, to make them "fit." But, then that's what the lawyer's are for, right? :)
Absolutely. Aren't you glad that Jesus is your lawyer? :)
FK: "He is above us all, and no one can comprehend Him close to fully."
I have been told by many on this Forum that have the mind of Christ. I would imagine that comprehension comes with it. So, then what you are saying is that we have the mind of Christ, but not fully. Partially. Ten percent? Thirty? Eight nine?
I have no idea, and I have no idea where you are going with this reasoning. In theosis do you actually achieve a complete understanding of God, i.e. a Divine understanding?
Did the Jews have the mind of Christ? Did they have 10% of it? Do they now have more? how much (percent-wise) does one have to have the mind of Christ to comprehend God (and believe correctly, and interpret the scripture correctly) to be saved?
Why are you throwing this on me, I didn't bring it up? :) The concept of adopting the mind of Christ is Biblical. I think you would say it is part of the process of theosis and I would say it is part of sanctification. I see no reason to criticize the idea of becoming more like Christ. :) I thought we all agreed on that part.
When He said (paraphrasing) "Don't go to the Gentiles but preach only to the twelve tribes of Israel" that is taken literally.
If true, then aren't you violating your own principle of God's impartiality?
Perhaps an "unfortunate" (accidental?) choice of words? Hmmmm....I don't think so. Perhaps it's the ancient way of saying "directly" (i.e. "live"). We can even rationalize that the burning bush was not the "face" of God, Christ's face is. And all those who saw Christ have also seen God—and lived! There is another meaning to "seeing God" and I am not sure what it is. Again, maybe an ancient phrase denoting something else.
Aren't you glad that Jesus is your lawyer? :)
Of course! Except He is the ONLY lawyer who doesn't rationalize but speaks the truth as it is. :)
Kosta: So, then what you are saying is that we have the mind of Christ, but not fully. Partially. Ten percent? Thirty? Eight nine?
FK: I have no idea, and I have no idea where you are going with this reasoning. In theosis do you actually achieve a complete understanding of God, i.e. a Divine understanding?
The point is that our "understanding" of God has nothing to do with knowing God. This was the point of the hesychastic fathers and the entire Palamite doctrine (against western scholastic approach), who argued that it is not through academic and intellectual reasoning that we ascend to God, but through prayer, as the Russian catechism says that through prayer we encounter "Divine abyss where words fall silent, where reason fades, where all human knowledge and comprehension cease, where God is. It is not by speculative knowledge but in the depths of prayerful silence that the soul can encounter God, Who is ‘beyond everything’." Hardly a divine "understanding" FK. :)
Why are you throwing this on me, I didn't bring it up?
I am not. I am throwing the whole idea of "understanding" God through reason (naked rationalism), rationalizations, logic and what not. Reason helps us know OF God and ABOUT God but that doesn't mean one "knows" God through reason. We can't figure God out, FK. He is a Mystery, eternal unknown to our intellect; the hesychastic fathers called Him "darkness" (where our mind cannot reach), beyond comprehension. All we have are His manifestations, and even they are miracles of their own kind (Incarnation being the chief among them, Holy Trinity, etc.).
I was being facetious when I asked what percentage of Christ's mind one has to have to know Christ? Our relationship with God cannot be measured or hinged on our "understanding" of God. Intellect is capable of describing or knowing God. God is ineffable and unknoable.