Now see, that's the problem, that perhaps I didn't explain very well. How does a Calvinist know they are of the elect for glory? I find this presumption, because Scripture has very little - nothing - to say about the individual being elected to heavenly glory. With that said, how does a person KNOW they are of the "supposed elect for heaven". It is a personal, subjective opinion, not objective. Thus, when a person makes that claim to be of the elect, he has committed to saying he CANNOT POSSIBLY FALL AWAY.
No non-sequitar here. The minute a Calvinist makes that claim, they have overriden the Sovereign will of God, who can now no longer send a person to eternal damnation because the Calvinist has said so... God is no longer sovereign, the Calvinist is. Although OTHER Christians can lose their inheritance and fall away, "most" Calvinists can not, because they have said so.
We also believe though that non-believers may "vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions: of being in the favor of God and estate of salvation" (XVIII,i), and also that assurance is not of the essence of salvation for the elect may have theirs "divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted" (XVIII,iv).
More double-talk, excuse me. The non-believer? At what point on the 'belief scale' does one leave the 'non-believer' zone and become a 'believer who cannot fall'? This is an artificial definition that ignores the fact that WE do not judge whether we are going to heaven, nor do we KNOW the absolute criteria that God will use to determine whether our faith was manifested properly by our love. Which human while still alive CANNOT deceive themselves? Are Calvinists immune to self-deception? Hardly. A person may have firm belief that they are elect - living the faith for 20 years - and then fall away. That is reality. Now, during that 20 years, did this Calvinist believe they were without doubt of the elect? Well, they deceived themselves, making the whole idea of self-election faulty.
To reiterate, we do not believe all Calvinists are saved/elect, and it is as entirely possible to see a professing Calvinist fall away as virtually all other groups.
Tell me of one current Calvinist who RIGHT NOW believes that he MAY fall away...All the ones that I have spoken with have already done God's work for Him - they judge themselves as saved for heaven. Do you know any Calvinists who wonder if they are "elect enough"?
Regards
I never said that such assurance was anything BUT subjective. The only way to have objective assurance is to have direct knowledge of God's election, which no man has. The Calvinist's assurance of his election is the logical conclusion of the subjective assurance of their salvation. It's not as though the Calvinist says, "I know I'm one of the elect, therefore I know I'm saved." It's quite the opposite: I know I am saved, therefore I know I am numbered among the elect.
Likewise, the assurance of perseverance is simply put in this syllogism:
Premise 1: I know I am saved
Premise 2: God preserves all who are saved in their salvation
Conclusion: I know I will be preserved in my salvation
No non-sequitar here. The minute a Calvinist makes that claim, they have overriden the Sovereign will of God, who can now no longer send a person to eternal damnation because the Calvinist has said so... God is no longer sovereign, the Calvinist is.
No, friend...it is you putting forth a non-sequitor. The Calvinist does not claim that the elect will be saved regardless of the sovereign will of God. They affirm that the elect will be saved according to the will of God. Furthermore, it is not the mere claim of being elect that carries the certainty of salvation, it is the fact of it. Again, it is impossible for anyone to have any assurance of salvation (and thus of their election) beyond their own.
Although OTHER Christians can lose their inheritance and fall away, "most" Calvinists can not, because they have said so.
Again, non-sequitor proceeding from the previous error. The belief of a Reformed Christian (or anyone else) that they are numbered among the elect can only be a deductive conclusion based on their subjective assurance of their salvation. Election is not a "name it and claim it" doctrine in the Reformed church, friend :)
More double-talk, excuse me. The non-believer? At what point on the 'belief scale' does one leave the 'non-believer' zone and become a 'believer who cannot fall'?
This is where your inexperience or ignorance of Reformed doctrine really shows. A non-believer becomes a believer when he/she is regenerated and quickened to faith by the Holy Spirit. They are justified at the point of faith, sealed unto the day of redemption, and sanctified unto their ultimate glorification in and with Christ. Saving faith is saving faith. It is either present or it is not.
This is an artificial definition that ignores the fact that WE do not judge whether we are going to heaven, nor do we KNOW the absolute criteria that God will use to determine whether our faith was manifested properly by our love.
Your answer belies the gospel you preach. Our salvation does not ultimately rest upon the extent to which we manifested our faith properly by our love. Our salvation rests in the person and work of Christ alone. Faith is the instrumental means by which we are justified on the basis of HIS righteousness and our sins are expiated. The works which necessarily will proceed forth are the outworking of that faith being manifest. They are result of faith, not the substance of it. Which human while still alive CANNOT deceive themselves? Are Calvinists immune to self-deception? Hardly.
I never said anyone was incapable of or immune to such self-deception, nor does the confession which I quoted maintain such a thing.
A person may have firm belief that they are elect - living the faith for 20 years - and then fall away. That is reality. Now, during that 20 years, did this Calvinist believe they were without doubt of the elect? Well, they deceived themselves, making the whole idea of self-election faulty.
"Self-election?" How many times can I explain that we don't "elect ourselves" and that the Reformed do not teach such a thing? That is precisely why the confessions say that such personal assurance is possible but is neither guaranteed nor an essential part of saving faith.
Friend, you are really not seeing the whole picture of the Reformed view of salvation.