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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Of course it does, but you continue to believe the Bible was written to a church and not to men and women of God's family.

Church = men and women of God's family...It is you who denies the visibile aspect of this Church. There CANNOT be an invisible only Church. Without a visible Church, there cannot be an invisible Church.

Does God appoint no man to wrath? Are all men appointed to obtain salvation?

Yes, God appoints wrath to men AFTER God views their demerits. Consider reading Romans 1. Note, how God LEAVES MEN TO HIS WRATH AFTER THEY TURN FROM HIM...

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Romans 1:20-28

God didn't make people that way. They brought it upon themselves and God appointed them to wrath because of their demerits. God's wrath is to leave men in their free will choice to select evil.

As to the second quote from Peter, I have already explained Romans 9-11 is about nations and God's predestination of particular nations - the Jews first, and then the Gentiles - based on His will BEFORE their merits. God chooses the order of selection of whom His people will consist of. Thus, the Jews cannot brag, since they did nothing to earn their place in salvation history. Paul reminds them over and over in Romans that they did quite enough to earn DESELECTION...

The reformed theology is not biblical. They take pieces of Scriptures and ignore the rest to form what I say is a disgusting theology - that God is the creator of sin and He has the "good pleasure" to send men to infinite torture, while "lying" to us and telling us that God desires all men to be saved...

Wow. If you can live with that contradiction, good for you. However, you have yet to show your case from Scriptures.

Regards

9,417 posted on 10/19/2007 8:54:21 AM PDT by jo kus
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To: jo kus
God didn't make people that way. They brought it upon themselves and God appointed them to wrath because of their demerits. God's wrath is to leave men in their free will choice to select evil.

All men will freely "select evil" unless God intervenes in their lives and drags them to Him, according to His plan for creation from before the foundation of the world.

Your POV is like the child who thinks he's riding his two-wheeled bicycle for the first time all by himself, when his father is really holding onto the back of it, guiding its every move.

"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7

All men are fallen and none seeks God unless and until God gives them a new heart. Under your works-based plan of salvation, you have men earning their new hearts, and earning their new eyes and ears, and that is not Scriptural. In fact, that is expressly denied in Scripture...

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" -- Titus 3:5

Of course there is a visible as well as an invisible church. It's just not centered in Rome; it's in every nation on earth and not one member of it will be lost.

"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." -- Acts 2:39

"As many as the Lord shall call."

9,419 posted on 10/19/2007 9:43:56 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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