That's your error, Mark. You equate the pope with God. You blasphemously state priests are "another Christ."
So who is the "servant of servants?" Jesus or your pope?
All your sloppy slurs against Calvin are meaningless. Calvin was just a man, not "another Christ." But his "Institutes of the Christian Relgion" and his Biblical Commentaries stand as witness to the fact every line he wrote, every thought he held, every word he spoke was Scripturally-based.
If only the RCC could follow his lead.
Calvinists refused to recognize the subordination of church to state, or the right of any government—king, parliament, or civic magistracy—to lay down laws for religion. On the contrary, they insisted that true Christians, the elect or godly, should Christianize the state. They wished to remake society itself into the image of a religious community.
You have your history confused. Calvin was the first to articulate a separation of church and state, but not so that the church was subordinate to the state, just separate. Unlike Rome, God forbid, where the church rules over the state. Calvin began with the presupposition that it is preferrable that the government should be run by God-fearing men. Do you disagree with that belief?
(The Reformed believe that) God, being Almighty, knew and willed in advance all things that happened, including the way in which every life would turn out.
Does God not know "in advance" all things that will happen? Is the will of God thwarted by men or happenstance or chance? Does anything happen in this life that God does not have ultimate control of?
Do you not realize how you are defining down God into a totem pole?
And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?" -- Isaiah 44:18-20"They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
You believe that you are going to heaven. You know it and have the indwelling knowledge that you are. You, Dr. E., believe yourself justified, sanctified and saved. You are now worthy of heaven. True or false?
No one is "worthy of heaven" except Jesus Christ. And thankfully, through His obedience, His justification, His sacrifice, His atonement, His redemption, I am justified, am being sanctified and thus, I have been saved.
I believe the words of Jesus Christ.
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
The main difference between us, Mark, is that I believe the Holy Spirit guides God's family unerringly, while every time you make reference to the Holy Spirit, it's in dismissive ridicule.
And lately I've come to wonder if this is what Jesus means by "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost."
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." -- Mark 3:28-29"Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Aggressive Calvinist.....
Haven’t seen him in a long time.
:>)
Oooh, I looove when you quote Mark. :)
That’s one thing about the Calvinists; they will have no truck with humility. There was no humility in Saint Calvin (Peace Be Upon Him) and there is no humility in his followers. I really didn’t think that a true Calvinist can really understand the washing of the feet or the fact that Jesus, the Lord of all, humbled Himself first to become a human, and then, to do something that the Jews of the time considered to be beneath everything except the very lowly, and then, to do something that only the lowliest of the criminals were rewarded with - crucifixion.
There is no humility in the WCF. There is no humility in the Shorter Confession, and I suspect there is none with the Longer. If you like, I’ll weigh in when I’ve finished deconstructing it.
Sloppy slurs? I challenge you to refute any of the charges that I nail up on the Calvinist doors. One of your companions has attempted to lie about my posts and their content as to the Faith versus his; and when challenged has gotten vewwy vewwy qwiet. Bring ‘em on, I say. Line ‘em up and we’ll knock ‘em down. Thin theological ice, I have said, and all I have been given is proof from your side. Thanks, really. You guys make it easier than it should be.
Saint Calvin (Peace Be Upon Him) has demonstrated that his Scriptural proofs are of the most sophomoric order and very often irrelevant - as I posted some time ago. He was a despotic thug of the order but not the scale of Pol Pot.
Do you mean Rome or the Vatican? I guess that vibrating at the end of the Calvinist string causes one to lose perspective, or possibly just reality. The Vatican is a country, a theological state with the Pope as its head.
Rome is a city, with a mayor. It is a city in the country of Italy. If you require, I will post a Google Map link so that you can go to it.
Are you unaware of Calvin’s theological rule? Are you unaware of the good burghers of Geneva that he had executed under his religious rule? Are you unaware of the rackings and whippings that he ordered? Is Google your friend for finding these stories or do you require links as well? You seem to have the minimum daily requirement of intelligence. How is it that you are unaware of his atrocities?
How is it that you quote Isaiah to refute Jesus?
I think that you are dancing with glee, along with the others in your elitist club. And, to the contrary, it is not the Holy Spirit that I ridicule. I believe that the Holy Spirit is an equal part of the Triune God. I do not believe, as some Calvinists do, that the Holy Spirit is a messenger or emissary of either the Father or the Son. The Holy Spirit at Pentecost entered the Apostles and Mary and so the Church began. The Holy Spirit entered me at the baptism that my parents sought for me.
I do not take Him lightly. It is Saint Calvin (Peace Be Upon Him) that I take lightly. The Reformed blaspheme against the Holy Spirit because they apparentely have a touch of Macedonianism while holding the completely incompatible doctrine of Montanism.
You guys amaze me. The spiritual Twister games that the Reformed display ought to be put on video.
Only Christ is worthy - and we are redeemed only by His blood, the blood of the Lamb of God.
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four [and] twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. – Revelation 5
Again, many thanks for introducing me to the fine Westminster Confession of Faith.
“You have your history confused. Calvin was the first to articulate a separation of church and state, but not so that the church was subordinate to the state, just separate.”
He didn’t articulate that well. Do you know how the WCF came about?
INTRODUCTION
Historical Setting of the Confession
The Westminster Confession of Faith is one document of several commissioned by the English parliament during the English Civil War (1642-1649), in which armies raised by the parliament, in league with Scotland, battled forces loyal to the tyrannical King Charles I and his bishops. The Confession was commissioned from an assembly of 121 Puritan clergymen meeting in Westminster Abbey, called the Westminster Assembly, which was convened in 1643 for the purpose of drafting official documents for the reformation of the Church of England. This was done in fulfillment of a Solemn League and Covenant(1) made with the Scottish parliament and people in the same year, to the effect that the episcopal Anglican establishment, which for many years had harassed and persecuted the Presbyterian Scottish church, should be abolished even in England, and replaced with a Presbyterian establishment which would constantly adhere to Calvinistic standards of doctrine and worship. It was only under such terms that the Scots were willing to join the parliamentary forces in their war against the King.
Reception of the Confession in Britain.
In 1647 the completed Confession of Faith, which was entirely satisfactory to the Scottish commissioners present at the Assembly, was sent to the English parliament for ratification. It was returned to the Assembly by the House of Commons, which required the Assembly to present a copy of the Confession with proof texts from Scripture.(2) After a period of debate the Confession was then partly adopted by the English parliament as Articles of Christian Religion in 1648, with the omission of § 4 of chapter 20, §§ 4-6 of chapter 24, and all of chapters 30 and 31. The Westminster Confession was adopted entire by the General Assembly of the Scottish Church in 1647 and ratified by the Scottish parliament in 1649. These acts of the English and Scottish parliaments were then nullified at the restoration of the Anglican episcopacy together with the British monarchy in 1660. After the Revolution of 1688, in which the intolerable Roman Catholic King James II was replaced by William of Orange, the Scottish parliament again ratified the Confession without change in 1690, to which the royal sanction was promptly granted by the new King.
In 1658, just two years before the restoration of the monarchy, about 200 delegates from the Congregational churches of England gathered in the Savoy palace in London to compose a revision of the Confession in which the principles of congregational independence and legal toleration would replace the established Presbyterianism implicit in the Confession’s statements touching Church government and discipline. This revision, known as The Savoy Declaration,(3) prefixed a lengthy Preface, substantially altered chapters 25 and 26, deleted chapters 30 and 31, inserted a new chapter, “Of the Gospel,” and added a platform of Congregational polity titled “Of the Institution of Churches, and the Order Appointed in them by Jesus Christ.” The Savoy Declaration was designed to encourage agreement on important matters between churches; but, true to the nature of Congregational polity, it was not intended to be a legal or corporate instrument, as was the Westminster Confession.
Your Confession of Faith was sponsored, voted upon and ratified by the governments of England and Scotland. I thought that you guys rebelled against a state - sanctioned religion. And now it appears that the WCF was an act of Parliament. The Catholic Church was not an act of government, at least. You guys get better all the time.
What’s next? I’m waiting on pins and needles.