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To: jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; HarleyD
[Joe to Dr. E.:] ... Paul is writing to the community at Philippi, not to Dr. Eckleburg or any particular Christian. His "God will complete His work within you" refers to the COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE, not the individual Christian. Paul is NOT guaranteeing that EVERY Christian at Philippi will be granted eternal life in heaven. This is obvious when elsewhere, Paul says that SOME INDIVIDUALS will fall away. (emphasis added)

I think this is a very significant difference we have, and I can't recall whether it has been discussed much before. We have a fundamental disagreement on what a "Christian" is. We would say that a Christian is one who has been born again and has true faith in the one true Christ Jesus, etc. I believe the Apostolic view is that a true Christian is anyone who claims to be. So, for you, all those who cried "Lord, Lord" and then were sent away by Christ were all Christians. We would say that by definition they could not have been Christians. The Bible is clear about the existence of false believers, but I don't know how you would describe such a person since you call false believers and true believers both Christians. I don't see why the term "Christian" would have any significance to the Apostolic Church since you use it to refer to so many who will be lost.

Obviously, this does not ease my mind at all for when an Apostolic acknowledges me as a "Christian". :)

8,407 posted on 10/06/2007 12:28:09 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD; wmfights; blue-duncan; Lord_Calvinus; irishtenor; suzyjaruki
We have a fundamental disagreement on what a "Christian" is. We would say that a Christian is one who has been born again and has true faith in the one true Christ Jesus, etc. I believe the Apostolic view is that a true Christian is anyone who claims to be. So, for you, all those who cried "Lord, Lord" and then were sent away by Christ were all Christians. We would say that by definition they could not have been Christians. The Bible is clear about the existence of false believers, but I don't know how you would describe such a person since you call false believers and true believers both Christians. I don't see why the term "Christian" would have any significance to the Apostolic Church since you use it to refer to so many who will be lost.

What an excellent observation. Very true. Precision has never been a big trait of the RCC.

8,431 posted on 10/06/2007 10:04:28 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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