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To: jo kus; MarkBsnr; D-fendr; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; irishtenor; suzyjaruki; Forest Keeper; ..
...to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God". Rom 2:9-11

Yep. And who "worketh good?" Those Jews and Gentiles who have been reborn by the Holy Spirit.

"Saved by grace through faith." That's what the text says.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" -- Titus 3:5

Scripture interprets Scripture. "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" is a clear statement of fact with plenty to teach us. As blue-duncan wrote so clearly yesterday...

"Jesus says unless our righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees we cannot enter the kingdom of God. Paul says in 1 Cor. 13:3, "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." That is not a treacly sentimental affection but a lovining response to God who loved us first. So how can an unbeliever love like that when he has not experienced the love of God? He can do good but always for the wrong motives because he has no relationship with the One who is good...

...The conscience, like nature and the law are just witnesses given by God's providence to turn mankind to Himself. There is no salvific grace in any of them except to point one to God, who alone can rid one of the guilt of sin. Anyone can do good deeds but no good deeds can restore fellowship with God; all that they do for the unbeliever is ameliorate to some worthless degree the eternal suffering in hell. All that the conscience can do in the unbeliever is bring the terrible weight of guilt without any source of relief except through chemistry or mysticism."

AMEN!

As the-Doc used to say on the forum several years ago, the Fall was much worse than people imagine.

And the greater the fall, the greater the gift of rehabilitation. We've all fallen and we can't get up unless and until God regenerates our hearts to believe in Jesus Christ's sacrifice because "whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." -- Romans 5:9-11

Paul could not be clearer. "Reconciled" not after we've done good works, but "reconciled while we were still enemies." Through unmerited grace alone we have been saved from the wrath of God who despises sin, saved by grace through faith in the blood of Christ whose atoning work on the cross "we have now received" as a "gift" and not as payment for services rendered.

8,261 posted on 10/04/2007 10:39:42 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you so very much for your insights and for those beautiful excerpts and especially, the Scriptures you have shared!

Truly, if even one person had ever been "good enough" to earn his place in heaven then Christ died for nothing (emphasis mine:)

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. – Galatians 2:20-21

Maranatha, Jesus!

8,266 posted on 10/04/2007 11:01:14 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
And who "worketh good?" Those Jews and Gentiles who have been reborn by the Holy Spirit. "Saved by grace through faith." That's what the text says.

Where does it say that? "Reborn"? The text of Titus 3:5 doesn't say anything about being "reborn", but being regenerated and being renewed. And your definition of faith? We don't see that in Romans 2 at all.

Scripture interprets Scripture. "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" is a clear statement of fact with plenty to teach us. As blue-duncan wrote so clearly yesterday...

Naturally, because you said so! I interpret the Scriptures differently because the context does not imply that eating meat is sinful - as an offense against God - but as an error in teaching. You are reading into Scripture your own theology, rather than what is there.

"Jesus says unless our righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees we cannot enter the kingdom of God. Paul says in 1 Cor. 13:3, "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."

Yes, and where is "faith alone" in that statement? This verse violates YOUR interpretation, because you said that anything done without faith is sin, while Paul says that faith to move mountains without love is NOTHING. Faith and love are two different things in 1 Cor 13.

Thus, according to you, all acts of love, unless done by the specially designated elect, are sinful...

Are you sure you think Paul means that?

And the greater the fall, the greater the gift of rehabilitation. We've all fallen and we can't get up unless and until God regenerates our hearts to believe in Jesus Christ's sacrifice because "whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

As usual, half truths. You connect a truth to something that is false and declare it as "the Word of God". Yes, the fall was great, and our salvation that much greater. And then, you insert the "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" misinterpretation. The Church does not believe that EVERY action of a non-believer is sinful, nor does Scripture make such a short-sighted claim. That comes from your theological construct of the Elect vs. the Damned dichotomy, rather than Scriptures. We find numerous "heathens" who do the will of the Lord in Scriptures! "To sin" is to do something against God's will - to disobey God. Did Cyrus the Persian king, a heathen, disobey God's will?

Paul could not be clearer. "Reconciled" not after we've done good works, but "reconciled while we were still enemies." Through unmerited grace alone we have been saved from the wrath of God who despises sin, saved by grace through faith in the blood of Christ whose atoning work on the cross "we have now received" as a "gift" and not as payment for services rendered.

Yes, ALL MEN ARE RECONCILED TO GOD! He couldn't have been more clear. And yet, you think that Jesus died only for a select few set of persons...

Where does the Sciptures say that Jesus died ONLY for the elect?

Regards

8,272 posted on 10/04/2007 12:24:49 PM PDT by jo kus
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