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To: jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; P-Marlowe; wmfights; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; suzyjaruki; ...
Jo kus: There are no "real numbers" in infinity, because every "number" has the same value. Thus, there is unity in infinity. Time, also, has little value in infinity, because time is a measure of change and there is no change in infinity. All points are the same.

Not so. All points on a line extending to infinity are not the same.

Even the point at infinity is precise. It is also known as the ideal point or the Omega point.

See also Real Projective Line

Again, eternity is time without end.

There is no eternity past. There was a beginning of time and a beginning of space. Real space and time are created as the universe expands.

Moreover there are very likely additional dimensions of space and time – their number and types being not fully knowable to us mortals whose vision and minds have been limited to three of space and one of time.

The Catholic Church long abandoned its insistence on a geocentric universe – it needs to embrace geometric physics as well if it wishes to speak in terms of space and time.

To project our physical, sensory or mental limitations (such as space and time) onto God is to anthropomorphize Him into a small “god” the mortal mind can comprehend.

An amoeba has a better chance of describing a human in its terms than we have of describing God in human terms.

As Dr. Eckleburg said:

So again, "infinity" is not the answer to everything. Whereas "God's will" is sufficient to answer any question (although graciously, He often expands on that answer through His word and the indwelling Holy Spirit.")

I propose it is better to conceive of reality – physical and spiritual – as God’s will and unknowable in its fullness.

Then we can receive God’s revelations to us for what they are – partial visions of His glory, never a full picture – we could not “handle it.”

Again, there was a beginning of “all that there is.” Moreover, there is a reason for it.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Col 1:15-20

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. - John 1:1-3

We know this is Truth because God revealed it to us.

Moreover, God has not yet revealed to us whether His new heaven and new earth (Revelation) will be a fixed or expanding space/time - or whether it is something else we cannot yet understand.

God’s Name is I AM – and Alpha and Omega.

Praise God!!!

8,258 posted on 10/04/2007 10:22:23 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg
All points on a line extending to infinity are not the same.

ALL points on an infinite line are without distinction. None are "closer" to any other point on this "line". Also, the definition of a parallel line in the "wikipedia" is stretched, because parallel lines do not intersect. If they did, they would not be parallel lines, just as a four sided object ceases to be a triangle.

eternity is time without end.

I disagree. Eternity is timeless. You are forgetting something called infinite regression. If there was an infinite time in the past, we would never arrive at today. God exists in eternity. Time is a unit of change, and God is changeless, thus, God does not exist WITHIN time, even "without end".

The Catholic Church long abandoned its insistence on a geocentric universe – it needs to embrace geometric physics as well if it wishes to speak in terms of space and time

That is irrelevant to our discussion. The earth being at the center of the universe says nothing about timelessness or eternity.

An amoeba has a better chance of describing a human in its terms than we have of describing God in human terms.

That's true, and the point I was making with Dr. Eckleburg. We are largely ignorant about God and His essence.

Regards

8,270 posted on 10/04/2007 11:54:10 AM PDT by jo kus
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To: Alamo-Girl; jo kus
Thank you for your terrific post, Alamo-Girl. I was looking forward to seeing how you answered the questions (especially since physics is not my strong suit.)

I propose it is better to conceive of reality – physical and spiritual – as God's will and unknowable in its fullness.

AMEN!

Then we can receive God's revelations to us for what they are – partial visions of His glory, never a full picture – we could not "handle it."

And another AMEN!

Again, there was a beginning of "all that there is." Moreover, there is a reason for it.

Yes, exactly and Scripturally true. There really was a beginning point and there really will be an end point which can be connected across the universe by our perceptions of a very real linear time-line, all determined according to the will and purpose of God from before time.

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail." -- Hebrews 1:10-12


8,286 posted on 10/04/2007 5:02:14 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; P-Marlowe; wmfights; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; ...
Again, eternity is time without end. There is no eternity past. There was a beginning of time and a beginning of space

What does that make of God? God is not just eternal—He is eternity, withough a beginning and without an end. Furthermore, God is outside of time.

If your definition is to be considered, then God, by necessity, has a beginning, and His very essence (of being without a cause) is made subject to His own creation, namely time.

8,292 posted on 10/04/2007 6:06:06 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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