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To: adiaireton8; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; blue-duncan; wmfights
How can you consecrate the bread and wine without a priest?

How about just bowing your head and asking God to do it?

And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. (Matthew 21:22 KJV)

Is God somehow prohibited from consecrating bread and wine because the person asking for it does not have the requisite apostolic authority or is not wearing the appropriate costume?

664 posted on 07/24/2007 8:02:00 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

OOOOHHHH, the big hat! I want to wear the big hat!


666 posted on 07/24/2007 8:05:04 PM PDT by irishtenor (There is no "I" in team, but there are two in IDIOT.)
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To: P-Marlowe
The bishops have always taught that laypersons do not have the ecclesial authority to consecrate bread and wine. (We can see this even in St. Ignatius of Antioch.) Simon Magus asked for this authority (an authority that Philip the deacon clearly did not have), and Peter refused, telling Simon Magus that his heart was not right before God. Would you have then said to Simon Magus, "Pssst, listen. How about just bowing your head and asking God for this power?"

That sort of egalitarianism is completely foreign to the NT and the fathers.

-A8

672 posted on 07/24/2007 8:15:49 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; irishtenor; xzins; Frumanchu; Uncle Chip; fortheDeclaration; Alex Murphy
Is God somehow prohibited from consecrating bread and wine because the person asking for it does not have the requisite apostolic authority or is not wearing the appropriate costume?

In what is fast becoming one of my very favorite links, we learn from Father Baker that the offering of the bread and wine during mass can be "invalid" for several reasons...

THE AMAZING GIFT OF THE PRIESTHOOD

"...A Mass can be invalid for a number of reasons (we presuppose that the priest has been validly ordained): 1) because of a defect in the matter, for example, using sweet rolls instead of bread made only from wheat flour and water; 2) because of a defect in the form, for example, changing the words "This is my body" or "This is the cup of my blood" into something else...

they must of course use the correct words of consecration, use wheat bread and wine made from grapes, and have the intention of doing what the Church does in offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass..."

A "defect in the matter?" A "defect in the form?"

How can they say with a straight face that "the correct words must be used" in order for the alchemy of transubstantiation to transpire?

Do they truly not see how this mumbo-jumbo is the antithesis of the Gospel? It's wizardry; not Christ risen.

699 posted on 07/24/2007 10:55:47 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: P-Marlowe

I keep reading some fantastic revelations as I catch up on this thread. Am I to conclude that you think that God is a combination magician and Santa Claus who will grant you three wishes if you simply ask for them?


749 posted on 07/25/2007 8:38:24 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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