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To: D-fendr; kosta50; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; blue-duncan
When the Westminster Confession of Faith speaks of God and passions, it is reiterating Scripture which says God is unchangeable. His passions are not like men's passions, subject to whim and unfulfilled desires. God's passions are perfect in and of themselves. They do not change. What He loves, He loves forever. What He hates, He hates forever. God's love does not change.

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." -- James 1:17


"For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." -- Malachi 3:6

I am surprised that you seem to be taking the side of Kosta in this debate, D-fendr. Isn't it your church that celebrates THE PASSION OF CHRIST?

Since you excerpted the WCF, let's see the entire Chapter II...

OF GOD, AND OF THE HOLY TRINITY
I. There is but one only living and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute, working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his own glory, most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him; and withal most just and terrible in his judgments; hating all sin; and who will by no means clear the guilty.

II. God hath all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone foundation of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom, are all things; and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth. In his sight all things are open and manifest; his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature; so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain. He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands. To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.

III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.


6,214 posted on 09/13/2007 11:52:54 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; Forest Keeper
Thanks for your reply.

God's passions are perfect..

Still your confession says: "without body, parts, or passions," not "with perfect passions" or "without imperfect passions" whatever these terms may mean.

They do not change.What He loves, He loves forever. What He hates, He hates forever.

Either: He hates and loves at the same time - seems a split 'person'? Or what you're describing isn't really a passion in the sense we're using. And still, your confession says..

And if we can say "God is love" can we also say "God is hate" in your view?

I am surprised that you seem to be taking the side of Kosta in this debate, D-fendr.

It's the orthodox side. I think it's pretty much found in of all mainstream Christian theology, Protestant included. The theology I excerpted goes way back and hasn't changed.

[We should sometime discuss how we relate to God as our Father; but, this is different than the theology of the Holy Trinity - this may be what is underneath the confusion here.]

Isn't it your church that celebrates THE PASSION OF CHRIST?

Doesn't yours? And both our theologies say God is without passions. To confuse Christ's passion with this discussion involves an error in Christology and/or the Trinity I believe.

Thanks again very much for your reply and posts...

6,218 posted on 09/14/2007 1:50:52 AM PDT by D-fendr
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