Actually, Cleopa is saying that perhaps our time of death has nothing to do with our state of the soul. It could be no different than what we choose to have for breakfast. Perhaps to God, our time of death is irrelevant, except for those elect who have been chosen for a specific purpose (prophets, apostles, etc.).
We have examples of good people living into he ripe old age and also some very mean people too. Likewise, we see wonderful people die in their youth, and the same among those who are not.
You brought up the Mother Teresa example. Do you assume that her faith was strong and genuine BECAUSE she lived to an old age?
Of course not.
But that would appear to thwart the idea that sin causes physical death
How so? Did not Adam live to be over 900 years old? His soul died the day he ate the fruit (as the Lord said it would), but his body lived in sin for a long time, longer than any other human being I think.
I would fully agree that physical death is certainly no punishment for the elect
Then why don't they celebrate when someone dies? Why don't they lead lives that promote brevity of life on earth, or just have somebody shoot them?
But for the same reason, I can't see it as being a consequence of sin
If it was good enough for Adam, it's good enough for the Protestant "elect." You have Adam's nature, it's called mortal. We all die because Adam sinned.
Going to Heaven would be like a "promotion", so wouldn't it seem like God was "rewarding" sin?
When Christ assumed the sin of the world, He died in His human nature. In His human nature, He even felt that separation from God when we sin by saying "why have You forsaken me?"
Mortality is human nature due to sin. It's not a reward or punishment; it's a consequence.
Open season on the Reformed? Not even I’d go there. :)
But it does lead to a good point: if the Reformed elect are to go to Heaven regardless of anything that they do or neglect to do, then why aren’t there mass suicides at the moment of realization that one is of the elect?
If Heaven is assurred, then why hang out here? Heaven is a whole lot better than here, so why not get there now? Anybody?
Well, does that mean that God causes their deaths and everyone else's death is random? What about this idea? :
Ps 139:13 : For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.
Do you suppose that knitting included congenital birth defects, abnormally strong heart muscles, below average immune systems, etc.? Or, do you suppose that we are made physically equal and everything after that happens by chance? If our time of death is irrelevant to God, then wouldn't it have to be the latter?
Did not Adam live to be over 900 years old? His soul died the day he ate the fruit (as the Lord said it would), but his body lived in sin for a long time, longer than any other human being I think.
I don't think we can have any idea how long Adam lived in sin. He might have repented an hour after he got chewed out by God. Who knows? We have some evidence that Eve repented, but we just aren't told about Adam.
FK: "I would fully agree that physical death is certainly no punishment for the elect."
Then why don't they celebrate when someone dies? Why don't they lead lives that promote brevity of life on earth, or just have somebody shoot them?
In my church we DO celebrate the lives of the departed. Of course, we also feel sorry for ourselves at our own loss. That is what mourning is supposed to be I think, and it is a Biblical practice. When a Christian I know dies, I don't feel sorry for him, only myself and the person's loved ones.
We are not to commit suicide because it breaks a Commandment. God obviously wants His children here for a time for His reasons. One of which is to fulfill the Great Commission. If we're all dead, then who is going to do the work? :) Plus, we have to stay alive long enough to make more future Christians. When enough have been made, He will let us know. :)
If it was good enough for Adam, it's good enough for the Protestant "elect." You have Adam's nature, it's called mortal. We all die because Adam sinned.
I forgot what the answer to the paradox was. Here, mankind benefits from the commission of sin, since if we never die, no one goes to be in Heaven with God. But mankind also benefited from the crucifixion. Are you sure God has no control over whenever sin happens? :)