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To: Forest Keeper
“”I’m just trying to imagine myself as a person with this view, and since I would be very interested in getting into Heaven I would want to know what exactly I had to do.””

Dear Forrest Keeper,

We must first understand that we can not earn Salvation based on works of “self” (emphasis on “self”)

There seems to be a great divide amongst Christians as to understanding works.

Works in Christ are selfless works and in order to do this we must die to ourself so that Christ can use our human nature.... In other words “let go” of ourselves COMPLETELY so that Christ can guide us.
Our Blessed Mother is our role model for this because by Her saying yes in order that God could become man shows the ultimate in Faith and in self denial to the will of God

When we let go of ourselves we are participating completely with the will of God and totally united with Him.

When we unite ourselves with Him in this manner we open ourselves to a love that is unconditional - preferring the good of others to the good of oneself.

This takes a clear “FREE WILL” decision on our part to drop our selfish nature and say “yes” regardless of any suffering that we may have to endure, because God knows us better than we know ourselves and Although we might not understand it at the time we embrace and love God’s will because of our Love for Him

The Scriptures are full of examples that we must die to self. Just a few....

Luke 9:23-24(Nab)
“Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross DAILY and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.”

Mark 8:34-35
“He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.
For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and that of the gospel will save it.”

Gal 5;24
“Now those who belong to Christ (Jesus) have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.”

Romans 6:11
“Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as (being) dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 7:4-6
“In the same way, my brothers, you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God.

For when we were in the flesh, our sinful passions, awakened by the law, worked in our members to bear fruit for death.

But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter.”

John 12;24-25

“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains just a grain of wheat; but if it dies, it produces much fruit.

Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will preserve it for eternal life.

If you read the lives of the martyrs and Saints, you’re going to find one very distinct thing they ALL have in common.It is in the Sacraments and particularly in the Eucharist that they die to self.”

Saint Thomas Aquinas says this very well....

“Material food first changes into the one who eats it, and then, as a consequence, restores to him lost strength and increases his vitality. Spiritual food, on the other hand, changes the person who eats it into itself. Thus the effect proper to this Sacrament is the con­ver­sion of a man into Christ, so that he may no longer live, but Christ lives in him; conse­quent­ly, it has the double effect of restoring the spiritual strength he had lost by his sins and defects, and of increasing the strength of his virtues.” St. Thomas, Commentary on Book IV of the Sentences, d.12, q.2, a.11

3,684 posted on 08/22/2007 12:18:19 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi
Works in Christ are selfless works and in order to do this we must die to ourself so that Christ can use our human nature....

That was a splendid post. Worth remembering. Thank you.

3,689 posted on 08/22/2007 12:59:36 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: stfassisi; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; D-fendr
We must first understand that we can not earn Salvation based on works of “self” (emphasis on “self”). There seems to be a great divide amongst Christians as to understanding works.

So far so good. :)

Works in Christ are selfless works and in order to do this we must die to ourself so that Christ can use our human nature.... In other words “let go” of ourselves COMPLETELY so that Christ can guide us.

I'd agree with your IOW, but am not sure what you mean by "human nature". The human nature we are born with is dead in sin, so while God still uses it for His purposes, I don't think it is in the way you mean. We would say that once God has transformed our nature into something completely new, only THEN is it fit to be used by God for what we would normally call "good".

This takes a clear “FREE WILL” decision on our part to drop our selfish nature and say “yes” regardless of any suffering that we may have to endure, because God knows us better than we know ourselves and Although we might not understand it at the time we embrace and love God’s will because of our Love for Him.

Yes, that is what we experience. I suppose you and I might disagree on the mechanism behind those decisions. :)

The Scriptures are full of examples that we must die to self.

Yes, those are great scriptures, thanks for posting. The "dead-alive" theme runs throughout. Once we were dead IN our sins, and now were are dead TO sins (Rom. 6:11), i.e. we are alive in Christ.

4,207 posted on 08/25/2007 4:21:23 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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