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To: kosta50; wmfights; MarkBsnr
I need to take these out of order on this one.

But it was FK who said that the Spirit has to come in before you can pray to Jesus. Man has to come to realization that there may be God, that He may exist before he can even decide if he will accept it or reject it.

I clarified the difference between "touch" and "indwell". The Spirit does not actually indwell until formal belief because the Spirit is a seal of something that has already taken place. But the Spirit DOES touch us and move us first to come to belief.

If God changes you to believe, then the faith you have is not your faith. You are brainwashed into believing.

Of course it's your faith, God gave it to you. And He doesn't take it back, either. Plus, when you think about it, is "brainwashing" really such a bad term in this context? :) I mean, were our brains "clean" before we came to Christ? NO, of course not, they were filthy and full of sin. God "washed" them and then we believed. That's really what Eze. 36:26-27 says.

3,656 posted on 08/22/2007 3:43:11 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; wmfights; MarkBsnr
Of course it's your faith, God gave it to you. And He doesn't take it back, either. Plus, when you think about it, is "brainwashing" really such a bad term in this context?

FK, lobotomizing was never good. It was 'curative' in a very undesirable way. If God changes our heart without our participation or desire, it is forced. It is no different than brainwashing.

I mean, were our brains "clean" before we came to Christ? NO, of course not, they were filthy and full of sin. God "washed" them and then we believed

God healed us because we asked Him. We don't go around snatching McDonald's burgers our of fat people's hands just because obesity is unhealthy, do we? Do we arrest smokers because their habits are disgusting? Or do we help them change their ways? God lets us know He is there, but it's up to us to come to Him and ask for help. We all did, and do. No one was forced, arrested or lobotomized.

3,673 posted on 08/22/2007 8:51:38 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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