[irishtenor]

My point is that ALL men sin, even those who sit in high places in the church. The Pope sins. The Cardinals sin. Therefore, ALL churches are run by sinful man. Therefore, ALL curches are fallible. The only correct and true measure of Spiritual guidance is the Scripture of God. I am aware of my sin, so the Holy Spirit corrects me in my walk with Jesus. If I make a mis-statement, I can go to the scriptures to find correction. Do you see my point? I trust the Holy Spirit much more than I trust ANY man.

[irishtenor]

Better yet, read “The Bondage of the Will” by Martin Luther. He presents both sides of Free will.

[D-fendr]

I do see your point, but whatever failings you see in men in the church you have also, that's what I'm trying to communicate.

They too can go to the Scriptures, they too can be corrected by the Holy Spirit, etc.. They sin; you sin. They err; you err.

I'm really not trying to be facetious. Just saying that trying to remove fallible men from your religion leaves you with one fallible man.

Maybe that's an improvement in your view? :)

[D-fendr]

Have you ever gone to anyone for spiritual counseling or direction?