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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; betty boop; blue-duncan; Quix; .30Carbine; xzins; P-Marlowe; ...
Kosta, your argument is the exact same one the atheist makes -- "prove it."

A-G is correct. We "prove it" by reading and understanding and debating from Scripture because we have been given faith that the Holy Spirit leads our study.

You, for some reason, do not believe in the ability of Scripture to answer all and any questions worth asking and answering regarding our salvation and God's instructions for our lives. You, for some reason, place your faith in other men and fallible groups of men and an intricate and imperfect system of Greek nomenclature while decrying the ability of the Holy Spirit to move whom He wills where He wills.

We can and should debate our understandings, but it is foolish of you to deny the Holy Spirit's mission in our lives. As b-d pointed out, that's no small error.

3,529 posted on 08/21/2007 1:47:31 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
...the ability of the Holy Spirit to move whom He wills where He wills.

Amen. An awesome participation. Billy Graham said it something like this: "Can you see the wind? You see the effects of the wind...."

3,543 posted on 08/21/2007 3:33:10 PM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; betty boop; blue-duncan; Quix; .30Carbine; xzins; P-Marlowe; ..
Kosta, your argument is the exact same one the atheist makes -- "prove it." A-G is correct. We "prove it" by reading and understanding and debating from Scripture because we have been given faith that the Holy Spirit leads our study
 
I can't help if atheists use the same method. Labeling a method does not prove it wrong. Neither does saying "We 'prove it' by reading and understanding" really prove anything.
 
But I submit to you that when you read KJV, for example, you will not know that part of 1 John 5:7-8 is a fraud (in red letters).  You will read it and accept it as "inspired" word of God.
 
 
The fact is that this is a later addition, penned by someone other then the author of 1 John. There are other such examples throughout the Bible, all of which point to the conclusion that we really don't know what we are reading because what we are reading may not have been said by Christ or was added at some point by someone other than the inspired author.
 
Now, the "spirit would lead" us to consider the text in red as genuine, because it expressed clearly the Trinitarian concept. This might further "lead" us to believe and proclaim that the Scripture really does give us Trinitarian doctrine as plain as it gets. But, the truth, which you cannot discern from just reading, tells us that it doesn't.
 
How do we know that this section is a fraud? Thanks to Church records. None of the Church Fathers who refer to 1 John 5:7-8 in their homilies have the part outlined in KJV. None of the copies older than the 6th century have it!
 
If we did the solar scriptura folly, we would all believe this is not so. But records show that the fraud was committed and once we know fraud was committed by more than one individual when it comes to the Bible, then we must conclude that we really don't know what we are reading or understanding, do we?
 
There there is no original and no reliable copy of the Bible, or any of its individual books, we cannot really state with any degree of certainty that any of the were written by the people they say were written by, or that they contain nothing but inspired truth of God.  We simply don't know and cannot trust the "spirit leading us" either.
 
So, appealing to the "leadings" in the Spirit may be as deceiving as the devil who altered the scriptures. But, then, he does appear as the angel of light, doesn't he?
 
You, for some reason, do not believe in the ability of Scripture to answer all and any questions worth asking and answering regarding our salvation and God's instructions for our lives
 
For all the reasons stated above.
 
You, for some reason, place your faith in other men and fallible groups of men and an intricate and imperfect system of Greek nomenclature while decrying the ability of the Holy Spirit to move whom He wills where He wills
 
It seems that such men and their writings point to the fact that not everything you read in the Bible is pristine or true, and that letting the "spirit" lead you is unreliable because you really don't know who or what is leading you.
 

3,564 posted on 08/21/2007 4:17:08 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; cornelis; xzins; TXnMA; .30Carbine
You, for some reason, place your faith in other men and fallible groups of men and an intricate and imperfect system of Greek nomenclature while decrying the ability of the Holy Spirit to move whom He wills where He wills.

So please do not feed into this trend, dear sister in Christ.

Certainly it's true that the Spirit bloweth wherever it list, and no man can see its comings and goings....

Also kosta moves in this Holy Spirit. So that makes us brother and sisters in Jesus Christ.

Then there was the disparagement of Greek "nomenclature," which I think is unjust. Arguably, the Greeks knew about the Logos before the Christians did.

Yet it all works to God's Purpose, in the End, for which the Beginning was made. Jesus Christ, Son of God, is Logos, Alpha, and Omega -- and the Rock on which we stand.

All glory and praise be to God -- "the Lord of Life, with His creatures"!

3,595 posted on 08/21/2007 5:28:51 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
your argument is the exact same one the atheist makes -- "prove it."

LOLOL! You and I picked up on the same thing in our replies.

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear sister in Christ!

3,660 posted on 08/22/2007 6:55:52 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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