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To: D-fendr; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; jude24

That means that at birth there’s no way to change the results.

God thinks of shaping pot A and says to Himself based on His knowledge, “This one is going to end up in the trash.” Then He makes it, and it ends up in the trash.

God thinks of shaping pot B and says to Himself based on His knowledge, “This one is going to end up on the shelf.” Then He makes it, and it ends up on the shelf.

God PLANS the shape of pot A and says to Himself, “This one is going to end up in the trash.” Then He makes it, and it ends up in the trash.

God PLANS the shape of pot B and says to Himself, “This one is going to end up on the shelf.” Then He makes it, and it ends up on the shelf.

No difference between foreknowing and planning in terms of end results.....which God knows ahead of time.


3,196 posted on 08/20/2007 9:49:09 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
That means that at birth there’s no way to change the results.

Nope. That means that if the results change, they're foreknown.

God doesn't make trash. Especially trash in His image.

3,199 posted on 08/20/2007 9:53:52 AM PDT by D-fendr
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To: xzins
No difference between foreknowing and planning in terms of end results...

Clearly either you and/or Calvin were very poor logicians.

3,221 posted on 08/20/2007 10:54:35 AM PDT by Petronski (Why would Romney lie about Ronald Reagan's record?)
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To: xzins
No difference between foreknowing and planning in terms of end results.....which God knows ahead of time.

I would put it this way in the context of our discussion: man having free will does not necessarily mean God cannot have a plan.

Your initial point, however, was that God's omniscience/omnipotence logically negated man's having free will. I don't believe you've proved this statement.

3,225 posted on 08/20/2007 11:18:16 AM PDT by D-fendr
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