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To: kosta50; D-fendr
In the military POV means "privately owned vehicle" (usually seen on travel claim forms), so I always chuckle at the double meaning—Godmobile! :)

LOL! That's pretty good. :)

FK: "The last possibility I can think of is whether I would still love our God if I didn't have the assurance that I claim I have about Heaven."

Yet you say that we don't know if those who are saved are really saved...your only assurance is your somewhat solipsistic knowledge a lá "I think therefore I am."

I don't understand the "yet". Statistically, there must be many many fully saved Christians walking around out there, whose faiths do not include assurance. Perhaps many in the Apostolic faith are in this group. So, that's how I approached the last possibility.

I believe that my surrender to Christ was genuine. I know that God forgave my sins. I know Jesus died for me. I experience Christ working in my life. And, I constantly measure myself against the scriptures to see if I generally "look" like a faithful Christian in God's service. God's promises go hand in hand with all of these types of things, so, I have assurance.

Tell me, FK, can there be any greater litmus test of true faith, a greater proof of orthodoxy than that? Is that not unconditional? Now, tell me if there can be any other faith that comes close? That's why there is nothing like being orthodox (little "o").

Yes, it is very admirable to love God without assurance. There can be no doubt. I think it is also admirable to love God with assurance. Ideally, the Christian theology behind it should make no difference as to whether and how we love God. As Christians we are blessed to be able to love God, no matter our theologies.

2,269 posted on 08/12/2007 11:12:45 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; D-fendr
It's late so I hope i make sense...

I believe that my surrender to Christ was genuine

I have no doubts that it was/is. But we can't be our own judges. Many people will say "I don't steal, I have compassion, I am a good person, I love God...I know when I die I will go to heaven." Sure sounds like "I earned it" if you know what I mean.

Just ask yourself if you love others as you love yourself. If the answer is no, then none of us can be sure of salvation because none of is is Christ-like. If we are saved it's only because of God's incredible mercy.

I think it is also admirable to love God with assurance

But is it easier?

the Christian theology behind it should make no difference as to whether and how we love God

If we can say "Thy will be done" and have no second thoughts.

2,275 posted on 08/12/2007 11:50:18 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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