:::It just isn’t a fair reading of Paul to say he went to his death not knowing where he was going.:::
Not fair? I thought that Reformed theology was all about unfairness.
1 Cor 9:
24
Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win.
25
Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one.
26
Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing.
27
No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.
Even as far back in his ministry as this, Paul indicates that he must work for his salvation, and it is possible for one to lose it. Paul did not KNOW. He hoped.
:::Sure, a lost person can hear the word and “believe”, but that doesn’t make him saved. :::
So Jesus lied when He said:
John 11:
25
Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,
26
and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Matt 10:
32
Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father.
33
But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.
Matt 11:
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“Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest.
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Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.
30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.”
Matt 16:
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19 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, 20 take up his cross, and follow me.
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For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 21
26
What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life?
27
22 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
:::I still find it non-coincidental that the uninspired men who invented ping-pong salvation are the exact same ones who anointed themselves as the only ones to re-save the laity once they blew it. Call me a cynic:::
Okay. You’re a cynic. :)
I don’t know who you are referring to when you speak about uninspired men who can save the laity. It certainly isn’t the Church or its clergy.
:::I have been very clear in the last month or so that we do not claim Divine certitude. We claim the certitude that a human may have, which is less. Human assurance is the same as human certitude. Divine certitude is something else. :::
If certitude is not certitude, then what is it? Possible certitude? Half certitude? Fractional certitude?
The problem with ‘knowing’ with absolute certainty is that there is no objective and ascertainable evidence that that knowledge is correct.
:) great minds think alike! :)
I have been expressing that thought in a number of posts with FK preceding yours.
Paul acknowledges the need for perseverance. Everyone agrees on that need. We disagree on who generates it and if there are any guarantees behind it. But during life Paul also said that he had finished the race and awaited his crown. That is as certain as certain gets for any human. I think he knew the crown was inevitable for him, but here he clearly says it so we all can be sure it was during his life.
FK: :::Sure, a lost person can hear the word and “believe”, but that doesn’t make him saved. :::
So Jesus lied when He said: [John 11, Matt. 10, 11, 16]
No, Jesus didn't lie, but He didn't have "believe" in quotes either. In these passages, Jesus is obviously talking about true belief. Later, He acknowledges that there are posers who merely CLAIM belief, such as in the "Lord, Lord" passage. They had a false belief and were not saved. They never denied themselves, etc.
I don’t know who you are referring to when you speak about uninspired men who can save the laity. It certainly isn’t the Church or its clergy.
Sure it is. Once a Catholic in good standing commits a mortal sin he goes from saved to unsaved. The only way back is to have his sin absolved by a clergyman in confession. Otherwise, he remains lost, outside the Church, and damned. God can always grant a special dispensation I suppose, but the normal result is that the person will wind up in hell. In this way the layman is dependent on the clergy for his salvation, along with the performance of baptism by a clergyman.
(Kosta, I remember our talking about baptism before, so the very last part doesn't apply to you. :)
If certitude is not certitude, then what is it? Possible certitude? Half certitude? Fractional certitude?
As I said, it is human certitude, as opposed to Divine certitude. If I drop a hammer I am certain it will fall. However, what if God chooses that exact moment to perform a miracle and suspend the hammer in mid air? This in no way diminishes the good basis for my human certitude. Otherwise, there is no such thing as certitude for the human on anything.
The problem with ‘knowing’ with absolute certainty is that there is no objective and ascertainable evidence that that knowledge is correct.
That's why absolute certainty is reserved for the Divine. Human certainty is achievable through the scriptures.