To: HarleyD
From this you get God creates dead people without free will?
11,162 posted on
11/16/2007 4:27:33 PM PST by
D-fendr
(Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
To: D-fendr
No. I get it from the entire chapter of John 8 among others.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
Joh 8:35 "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
Joh 8:36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
Joh 8:37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.
Joh 8:38 "I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father."
Joh 8:39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus *said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
Joh 8:41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God."
Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
Joh 8:43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
Joh 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Joh 8:45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
Joh 8:46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
Joh 8:47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
You will be hard press to provide a logical explanation of what our Lord Jesus was talking about in John 8 from a "free will" belief. It makes no sense.
11,163 posted on
11/16/2007 5:19:59 PM PST by
HarleyD
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