Replies

MLG: And, as Marting Luther said of the devil, “Satan is God’s Satan”
Mark: Are you saying that satan is God’s agent? Are you saying that satan’s tempting and evil in the world is God’s doing?

Mark, Judaism considered Satan an angel of God and, who is far from fallen, but God's loyal servant. A cursory reference to the Encyclopedia Judaica will confirm this. The Gospels make a break with this Judaic tradition and place Satan as the fallen angel.

No matter what Judaic "tradition" says, Scripture is quite clear that Lucifer rebelled against God and is thus "fallen", along with the angels who rebelled along with Lucifer.

Which is another reason to be suspect of "tradition", as opposed to the surety of Scripture.

Angeology and demonology familiar to Christians can be found in latter-day Judaism (Kabbalah, etc.) and rabbinical (Talmudic) Judaism of the 3rd centruy A.D.

Many Protestant, in order to maintain the absolute sovereignty of God, abhor the idea of Satan being a rebellious angel, but an agent of God who acts by God's permission (i.e. the Book of Job). As one Orthodox rabbi said: "how can an angel rebel against G-d? That's ridiculous!"

I don't know where you got the idea that Protestants "abhor the idea of Satan being a rebellious angel". I know of no Protestant who holds to such a riciculous idea, or any that has taught anything closely resembling it.

Protestants recognize full well that Lucifer is rebellious, but that Lucifer, being subject to the Sovereignty of God cannot do anything which God does not allow. God is not surprised or unaware of anything Lucifer does. Either God is Sovereign or not.

:::Protestants recognize full well that Lucifer is rebellious, but that Lucifer, being subject to the Sovereignty of God cannot do anything which God does not allow. :::

This fits in very well with the Reformed doctrine, doesn’t it? Satan is an agent of the Reformed God. This must mean that the Reformed God is the origin of evil, since nothing that anyone does in a Calvinistic universe is not preordained by God.

This supports Kosta’s point.

No matter what Judaic "tradition" says, Scripture is quite clear that Lucifer rebelled against God and is thus "fallen", along with the angels who rebelled along with Lucifer

There is no lucifer in the (OT) Bible. It was St. Jerome's (Vulgate) creation, using the Babylonian morning star diety as subject which only Christianity (through Apochrypha, and no doubt through Babylonian and Persian influence) taught, not Judaism.

And please don't quote Isaiah and his refreence to the Phoenician king who believed himself to be god.

Thank you.

Protestants recognize full well that Lucifer is rebellious, but that Lucifer, being subject to the Sovereignty of God cannot do anything which God does not allow

The OT shows that this permissiveness of God goes further than that (i.e. Job), and that Satan, as all other angels is simply an obedient servant of God. There is no adversity between God of the OT and Satan.

The Christian demonology comes into play after Zoroasternism influend certain religious groups in Israel. Fall angels are mentioned in the so-called Apocryphal books, which are quoted as authoritative in the NT (i.e. Jude).