To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; kosta50
I must agree with FK that this is one of the most baffling things that I have come across. From you website this writer does a very poor job of explaining the case for hell not exisiting. He states:
In the Gospel story of Lazarus and the Rich Man, Jesus clearly states that they both end up in the same place, in Hades. Hades of course is used to mean the same thing as Hebrew "Sheol," it simply means the place everyone goes when they die....All of them are in Ha rus received bad things, but now he is comforted, and you are in pain". See how he contrasts "but now" (in death), one is comforted, the other in torment. Neither does it says that God is punishing him, he is simply "in pain" while there.
Lazarrus is dining at a feast while the rich man is in flaming torment. He is in pain but God is not punishing him??? Quite frankly, does this make any sense???
As FK stated, once again the author's argument is that "Nobody really understand Greek like the Greeks." This is a rather lame excuse. I'm sure there have been several non-Greek scholars throughout the ages that could understand Greek just as I'm sure Martha Stewart could whip up a great Greek dinner.
The author also uses St. Ignatius as if Ignatius was confirming that he did not believe in a hell. What absolute tripe! Here is what St. Ignatius has to say on the subject:
If, then, those who do this as respects the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with any one who corrupts by wicked doctrine the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such an one becoming defiled [in this way], shall go away into everlasting fire, and so shall every one that hearkens unto him. - St. Ignatius Epistle to the Ephesians, Chap 16, The Fate of False Teachers
It's pretty bad when people distort not only the word of God but what the fathers had to say on certain matters. Too bad the Internet allows us to verify these claims.
The author never addresses the numerous places where our Lord Jesus talks about the fiery pits of hell and how people will be sent there. The argument that "it's not talked about in the Old Testament." doesn't wash because Christians use the whole canon to get the complete picture-not just the old. The fact that our Lord (not John, James, Peter or Paul) talked about hell more than anything else should confirm the fact there is such a place.
In a way Kolo is right. People wouldn't be so quick to embrace ecumenicalism if the truly understood the differences.
To: HarleyD
I'm sure there have been several non-Greek scholars throughout the ages that could understand Greek just as I'm sure Martha Stewart could whip up a great Greek dinner.Harley, you just made my day!
To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; kosta50
“...just as I’m sure Martha Stewart could whip up a great Greek dinner.”
I sincerely doubt that, HD!
I’m at the office and have a busy day ahead, but this whole discussion could become very interesting; more tonight with any luck. In haste, however, I can understand your vehemence. If Orthodoxy is correct, its good bye to all that “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” phronema of the West. The opposite, of course, is also true.
“In a way Kolo is right. People wouldn’t be so quick to embrace ecumenicalism if the truly understood the differences.”
No “in a way” about it, HD.
10,451 posted on
11/05/2007 6:16:42 AM PST by
Kolokotronis
(Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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