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To: Forest Keeper

:::”You do not ask for things if you know that they are going to come about for sure. You only ask for things if you know that they are not going to come about.

What? How do you come to that conclusion? First, this would make all the prayers of Jesus a farce, neither of your statements apply to Him. In addition, that would have the Bible contradicting the Lord’s Prayer. “Give us this day our daily bread”:::

The Bible does not contradict the Lord’s Prayer, neither contradicts Jesus. The only entity in opposition to them is the Larger Confession. I submit that when the Confession contradicts the Bible, then the Confession has to go.

:::Therefore, the theology of a Creation set in stone is completely incompatible with petition.

No. God is strong, not weak and unable to make up His mind. His will always governs. When we pray for something in accordance with that will, then we get it. If the prayer isn’t, then we don’t.:::

Under Reformed theology we get that which He has foreordained whether we pray for it or not. Therefore we must come back to the premise that petition is useless if one is Reformed; a mechanical exercise only.

Jesus taught us to petition God. Calvin teaches us that God has set everything in stone and nothing that we do can change that. I see it as a philosophical divide between them.


10,173 posted on 10/31/2007 8:03:03 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; D-fendr; Kolokotronis; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; blue-duncan; ...
Under Reformed theology we get that which He has foreordained whether we pray for it or not. Therefore we must come back to the premise that petition is useless if one is Reformed; a mechanical exercise only.

For the sake of argument, let us assume that the Reformed approach, our getting exactly what God wants us to have, is a "bad" thing. :) And knowing that I have already described many uses of prayer other than getting stuff, how would you then describe the "use" of prayer and how is this superior to the Reformed approach?

Jesus taught us to petition God. Calvin teaches us that God has set everything in stone and nothing that we do can change that. I see it as a philosophical divide between them.

Well, did Jesus also teach that God has no idea what He wants to do and is waiting to be led by us through our prayers? :) That seems like the inevitable conclusion. Either that, or that God has an idea of what is best for us, but then we correct Him with our prayers. Neither option sounds appealing to me. :)

10,262 posted on 11/01/2007 2:39:35 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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